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Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by matheusmoreira on Saturday November 28, 2020 @08:56PM (#25242309)
> what about the chips in your system?

We need a way to manufacture our own hardware. Just like we can already write our own software.

Currently manufacturing processors costs billions of dollars. Consequently, the power to create computers is centralized in very few hands. They are easy targets for government regulation and compromise.

What if we had technology that would let individual users fabricate their own hardware cheaply? That would give the power to create computers to everyone. We would then be able to create chips we could trust. Nobody would be able to interfere.

Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by drivebycomment on Sunday November 29, 2020 @12:04AM (#25243044)
Just as it's impossible to build skyscrapers or bridges or ships or cars or pretty much any modern sophisticated structures or machines without specialized equipments and skilled people and organizations - mostly companies, you can't build chips without companies. Modern semiconductor fab are a marvel. It takes amazing concentration of equipments and specialized folks to get a fab working.

This "trust no one" is complete BS. A modern human society can not function without some trust.

Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by deeringc on Sunday November 29, 2020 @05:41AM (#25244294)
And even if you fabricate your own hardware, you're still trusting the open source designs you download from the internet. Being able to audit them is much better than not being able to see them, but it's still very possible to have some incredibly subtle backdoor or vulnerability hiding in plain sight. This happens all the the time in complex systems. There is zero chance that you can design a functioning and useful chip and OS, from scratch without trusting something else along the way. That goes all the way to compilers, toolchains etc... And even if you could, chances are you've created hundreds of accidental security vulnerabilities that can be exploited. Zero trust is a fantasy.
Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by disown on Sunday November 29, 2020 @12:27AM (#25243129)
> We need a way to manufacture our own hardware. Just like we can already write our own software.

We may write code but we didn't write the compiler which compiles the code. We didn't develop the runtimes, kernels, etc our software is dependent upon. The security, reliability and trustworthiness of the entire software world is dependent on trust.

You should read Ken Thompson's article on "Reflections on Trusting Trust"

https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/358198.358210

Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by fsflover on Sunday November 29, 2020 @03:51AM (#25243886)
It still can be detected if you have two identical compilers with and without the backdoor. So we should collect all versions.
Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by saalweachter on Sunday November 29, 2020 @08:43AM (#25245062)
Also, unless your compiler back door is functionally an AI, sufficiently large changes to the software will break its backdoor inserting routines.
Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by nine_k on Sunday November 29, 2020 @12:01AM (#25243034)
There are hundreds if facilities which can produce computer chips, all over the world. The chips would be "old tech", though, e.g. 70 nm or even 120 nm.
Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by ashtonkem on Sunday November 29, 2020 @01:56AM (#25243439)
From a practical stand point, you have written and read 0.0% of the software on your system. You do need to trust someone, otherwise you might as well just swear off using computers.
Re:Second Swiss firm allegedly sold encrypted spying devices by bergstromm466 on Sunday November 29, 2020 @01:12PM (#25246798)
> We need a way to manufacture our own hardware. Just like we can already write our own software.

> Currently manufacturing processors costs billions of dollars.

> What if we had technology that would let individual users fabricate their own hardware cheaply? That would give the power to create computers to everyone. We would then be able to create chips we could trust. Nobody would be able to interfere.

Absolutely. I believe that today's Capitalist/Corporate production (in contrast to Commons-based peer production or communism) undermines human ingenuity. Most of today's industrial production processes are wasteful. The corporate products it creates are non-modular and bloated, and waste energy and resources (especially since barely any e-waste is recycled or re-used).

If all tech was open source and there were no monopolizing and artificial scarcity -generating systems

If all tech was free/libre open source, and if there were no monopolizing and artificial scarcity -generating systems that put artificial limits on digital information systems that allow for a near-zero marginal cost of reproduction (I'm referring to the Intellectual Property systems and the (inter)national courts that enforce these property laws), and if all the latest research and developments were also shared open source - and only a system for authorship claims to help identify successful inventions/discoveries to note who contributed to the experiments that succeeded (to guarantee they those people can continue to be involved and supported to continue to do this work), existed, then the world would be able to radically skill up (growing, over time, what Karl Marx called, the 'General Intellect': "the general social knowledge or collective intelligence of a society at a given historical period") - then we'd be able to more thoroughly tackle so many of the problems we're facing today in new innovative ways. Stated inversely: today we cannot tackle many challenges effectively (collectively) because of artificial limits placed on knowledge and important discoveries/mechanisms.

I believe that the biggest obstacle to successfully averting a fatal climate crisis has to do with how we see, and work with, 'intellectual property' - which is basically privatized knowledge. Today's Global North elite/bourgeois Intellectual Property systems and agreements are facilitating the biggest theft that is happening to the working classes. It could be argued that it is the most violent turn of Capitalism to date, in that it deprives many children the right to ask questions, and forcefully prohibits human curiosity in general. Or at best it puts an exorbitant rentier price on ‘education' (e.g. in the form of an academic degree) and other learning materials. Intellectual Property systems have pushed the privatization and commodification of immaterial Commons to the furthest edges, exploiting and oppressing the working classes; especially alienating, dominating and disenfranchising the working class in the Global South. [1],[2],[3]

I believe the key strategy for proletarians, together with bourgeois class traitors, is to move towards a new Commons/natural-resource stewardship system.

I'll try to further describe what I hope for. Today, Corporations carefully track their total available material resources within a corporation through what's called an Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) software system. The folks at Valueflo.ws and Holo-REA (REA = Resource Event Agent) are using the open-source distributed data-integrity engine called Holochain to allow groups of people to mutually-'self-sovereignly' peer produce; using what their team, together with Sensorica, have come to call a Network Resource Planning (NRP) system, or software.

This NRP configuration/system replaces ERP systems and instead creates and enables a fractal Open Value Network, meaning that humans are now able to more accurately (+ accountably and transparently) coordinate, map and plan how we'd like to share mother earth's precious resources/Commons.

Most importantly, I believe that by moving away from today's means-of-exchange money system, we lose the need to use artificial scarcity creating systems that privatize knowledge:

"Let's just replace the unit of account with distributed ledgers, let go of transactional mindsets requiring a medium of exchange, recognise our planet's resources as the store of value and be done with it" — @pospigos [4]

Workers of the world, unite!

[1] Vijay Prashad, https://www.thetricontinental.org/the-rate-of-exploitation-t...

[2] Jakob Rigi, https://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/487/6...

[3] Wendy Liu, https://tribunemag.co.uk/2019/01/abolish-silicon-valley

[4] https://twitter.com/pospigos/status/1174863182214549504