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Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by PragmaticPulp on Friday November 27, 2020 @11:52AM (#25230277)
E-bikes are perhaps the most misunderstood category of bike products right now.

Traditional bikers have underestimated demand for e-bikes at every step of the way for one reason: Traditional biking has a massive selection bias effect that excludes anyone who isn’t in great physical shape. The deeper you are into cycling, the more homogenous your perception of what constitutes a biker.

You’re not going to see average consumers at the top of 20-mile mountain bike trail with steep terrain at 7AM. You’re only going to see equally enthusiastic bikers who are highly trained and discipline. It leads to a stereotype that these are the only people who care to spend a lot of money on bikes.

E-bikes turn that assumption upside down. They offset the physical fitness requirements and blow the doors wide open for anyone and everyone who wants to spend their way into the sport. Now those previously unreachable heights can be accessed by anyone with a credit card. It’s no longer just a niche hobby exclusive to those who can put years into building up their fitness and bike knowledge.

The total addressable market of e-bikes is much greater than the total addressable market of conventional high end bikes for that reason.

Ironically, this is creating a lot of animosity among traditional bikers. Previously, the most difficult uphill trails were lightly trafficked because only a select few could ride them. It was satisfying to be one of the few people at the top of a difficult trail at sunrise. Now, it’s not uncommon to be passed on the uphills by many people who are visibly out of shape, but use e-bikes to make up the difference (and then some). Some people are even hacking their e-bikes for more power or to allow power application without pedaling, turning them into electric dirt bikes that tear up trails. This is why we have so much regulation clamping down on e-bike access right now. Those regulations might be the biggest modulator in the size of the e-bike market.

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by Eric_WVGG on Friday November 27, 2020 @01:41PM (#25231450)
I think you’re missing his point. He wasn’t saying e-bikes were bad or pointless, he was saying that the design decisions made around this bike don’t make sense for an e-bike commuter or a performance racer or basically anyone. I’m similarly confused.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by tedivm on Friday November 27, 2020 @05:49PM (#25233260)
I think you and op are missing the point though. This is a light weight ebike! Obviously it's not as light weight as a professional bike (or like any without a battery), but this cuts weight everywhere it can and still has a 45 mile range (plus an extended battery you can add on to extend the range).

On top of that people are already spending thousands of dollars on ebikes- this really isn't that much more expensive than a much shittier version. The "best ebike" according to Wired last year is the exact same price as this one but weighs five pounds more.

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by loeg on Friday November 27, 2020 @06:39PM (#25233589)
Look have a carbon ebike that's fairly close: E-765[1]. It looks more like a traditional road bike in geometry and handlebars. 29 lb, ~53 mile range. Removable battery.

[1]: https://www.lookcycle.com/us-en/products/bikes/e-bike/road/e...

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by dmurray on Friday November 27, 2020 @06:57PM (#25233707)
Yes, the point is to be a light weight e-bike, but still, why? Make it out of steel or aluminium, making the frame 1 kg heavier, perhaps that costs you another 200g in the battery and motor to drive the same power. Aluminium and steel are better materials than CF in every way except weight - or if not, I'd like to hear why!

The 1-2 kg weight savings is useful if you need to carry your bike up the stairs to your top floor apartment. Or to ride it up hills in manual mode. Both of those seem like niche cases.

Edit: other responses tell me that modern carbon fibre frames are not much more expensive than metal, not much more fragile, and may be more comfortable. That makes it a more reasonable choice than I thought.

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by gnopgnip on Friday November 27, 2020 @08:57PM (#25234458)
It isn't just 1kg difference overall. This bike weighs less than half of most electric bikes, comparable to an entry level road bike. ~8lbs less than a similarly priced lightweight electric bike with an aluminum frame(Specialized Turbo Vado SL), or a modern non electric commuter bike with fenders and a basket. There are some other carbon fiber ebikes, but they tend to be much more expensive and also are usually heavier(but with a longer battery range)

It isn't just about carrying it up the stairs to your apartment, it is the stairs taking the subway and getting off, getting on and off buses, going up and down stairs for parking garages when you get where you are going, the battery lasting a little longer overall, taking hills and accelerating a little faster. Especially for someone who is not a typical fit cyclist, the weight difference can be a the difference between this and not cycling at all.

For relatively short trips, mixing with public transit an electric kick scooter is a competitive option, cheaper, comparable weight or lighter. Slower and less utility though

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by interestica on Friday November 27, 2020 @07:14PM (#25233834)
Have you ever seen a car with a spoiler? Do you think any modern consumer-directed car needs a spoiler? I think there is certainly a market that is willing to pay for the 'costume' upgrades. And there needs to be certain credibility behind it - a show off factor ("hey, check how light this is.") These bikes can be status symbols. There's a value in 'potential utility'. Also....people will pay premiums for certain phone colours.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by satvikpendem on Friday November 27, 2020 @07:42PM (#25234009)
The 1-2 kg weight savings is useful if you need to carry your bike up the stairs to your top floor apartment. Or to ride it up hills in manual mode. Both of those seem like niche cases.

These don't really seem niche. The lighter the better, simply because F = ma, the lower the mass, the higher the acceleration from the same amount of force from the battery applied. Or, higher range.

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by portlander52232 on Friday November 27, 2020 @08:53PM (#25234430)
Light weight and stiffness change how a bike feels, far more significantly than it improves objective performance. A light, stiff bike with a fast-engagement hub feels sporty and fun, it’s that simple. It makes you want to go harder and makes you smile as you do it.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by davidw on Friday November 27, 2020 @07:17PM (#25233851)
Yeah, I saw a bunch of eBikes in use last time I was in Italy. They're heavier clunkers where 5/10 miles is a good enough range.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by wussboy on Friday November 27, 2020 @07:59PM (#25234129)
I’ve never been so angry in my life as when I was chugging up a hill in lower gear just to have some lady in her office skirt blow past me, Louis Vuitton bag in her side saddle. I get the animosity. But kudos to her! I hope she’s still blasting past idiots like me!
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by learnstats2 on Friday November 27, 2020 @07:19PM (#25233864)
I read that more than half of new bikes sold in the Netherlands (around half a million per year) are e-bikes.

It has become more difficult to underestimate the popularity of e-bikes, now that I get overtaken by a steady stream of pensioners every time there is a slight uphill.

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by sunstone on Friday November 27, 2020 @07:03PM (#25233748)
The implications of e-bikes go deeper than one might think. Consider that urban areas are entirely designed around the fact that fossil fuel transportation creates a lot of poisonous emissions. Once fossil fuel transportation is removed from city centers streets can be covered in poor weather, parking can be enclosed, street capacity can be multiplied by several times if e-bikes are popular. There are a lot of wins under this scenario.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by johnwatson11218 on Friday November 27, 2020 @11:18PM (#25235232)
Not just that but if you live in an American city an eBike can get you closer to that classic "walkable feel" of an older city or a college campus. With my eBike I can get to so many places that are about a 10 minute car ride away. A destination needs to be 30+ minutes away by car before the eBike just doesn't make sense or if it is raining.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by johnwatson11218 on Friday November 27, 2020 @11:13PM (#25235208)
Great points. I just bought two eBikes in the last six months and I love them so much. One thing that I really hate though is how hard it is to change flat tires and dealing with the bike shops. I can't imagine an older person being able to change the tires on either of my eBikes. I swapped out one pair for a pair that is somewhat easier to work with but it can still take me 20 minutes to put on a new tube. The bike shops in my area are horrendous. There are three that I just don't visit anymore. I'm trying to find good ones to use but they are so slammed right now due to covid that it can take 2 to 3 weeks for a large repair. And they have told me they won't do anything for my eBikes if I didn't buy them there. I love riding bikes but there is so much about the bike industry that I find infuriating.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by patrickk on Saturday November 28, 2020 @03:43AM (#25236284)
If you have a hub motor ebike, installing puncture resistant tyres are essential in my opinion. I also have had bad experiences with local bike shops, and the cost of replacing a normal tyre with puncture resistant ones is made up as soon as you roll over glass (very common on my commute). Battling to get the rear wheel off and back on correctly again on my rear hub motor bike isn’t something I want to do again!

https://ampedcycling.com/puncture-resistance-what-can-i-do-t...

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by portlander52232 on Saturday November 28, 2020 @12:13PM (#25238788)
Haven’t gotten a flat since I went tubeless, you might want to give it a try. Changing and setting up the tire is more involved but once done you’re much less likely to have to do it again.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by johnwatson11218 on Saturday November 28, 2020 @01:48PM (#25239545)
Yea both of my mountain bikes are now tubeless and I agree that it is much less of a hassle. My main point is that everybody is talking about how eBikes can get the older folks back out on the bike but when you start talking about tubes and tires you are right back at that ultra-competitive space where people are shaving grams etc. That is part of the bike culture that I do not like, I wish it was more like the Netherlands here in the US. I imagine lots of utilitarian bikes and decent shops all over the place. Here in the US the shops tend to focus exclusively on the high end. It reminds of high school athletics where the varsity football team gets 90% of the budget all to help out 5% of the students, just one more lopsided aspect of the US and our approach to physical fitness.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by throwaway1777 on Friday November 27, 2020 @01:37PM (#25231417)
Reminds me of when drones took off. Regulations took a while to catch up. At one point it was a huge nuisance with people flying little drones in every park. Fortunately now it’s died down with regulations and general knowledge of what’s acceptable, and I agree the same will happen with ebikes.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by hated on Friday November 27, 2020 @01:44PM (#25231478)
Did regulation reduce drone usage? Or just lack of interest?
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by closeparen on Saturday November 28, 2020 @12:48AM (#25235590)
Decoupling transportation and exercise is valuable even if you are in shape.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by slim on Saturday November 28, 2020 @01:30AM (#25235740)
why? if time is your most precious asset, coupling them makes the best value you can get
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by closeparen on Saturday November 28, 2020 @02:40AM (#25236016)
When I’m going for a run or to the gym I plan ahead, get enough sleep, eat a good meal well beforehand, change into suitable clothes and footwear, and shower afterwards. I don’t appreciate dealing with all of that in the moment I realize I need something else from the grocery store. Ebike is a godsend as it means I don’t just automatically drive. When I’m riding just to ride, then I’ll take out the traditional bike.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by patrickk on Saturday November 28, 2020 @03:48AM (#25236316)
If you’re in a rush in the morning to get to work, arriving sweating after cycling intensively isn’t a nice experience especially if you don’t have a shower or changing facilities at work. Maintaining a higher speed while reducing or eliminating sweating, while taking cars off the road is a huge plus of ebikes. Maybe it’s a positive social change that will come out of Covid.
Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by enriquto on Saturday November 28, 2020 @06:32AM (#25236976)
> if time is your most precious asset, coupling them makes the best value you can get

I regard time spend during my bike commute through the forests as very valuable. Sometimes I even slow down a bit to cherish the moment.

Re:Greg LeMond’s New 26 LB. Carbon Fiber Ebike by ogre_codes on Saturday November 28, 2020 @02:02AM (#25235873)
Huh?

So many advantages here. You save money, save time, and get more fit.