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Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by rayiner on Friday November 27, 2020 @10:40AM (#25229498)
Embezzlement to use union funds for personal expenses? That’s pretty low grade corruption. This sort of thing happens in private corporations and it rarely gets prosecuted unless it’s huge.

We tend to hold Union officials to standards of conduct more similar to public employees and elected officials, rather than their private sector counterparts. I’m not sure that makes much sense.

Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by refurb on Friday November 27, 2020 @10:43AM (#25229521)
Embezzlement by a union official does more to hurt unions than embezzlement by some random public official hurts public perception of the govt.

Union leaders talk about fighting for workers. Pay your dues, they go to fighting for worker rights. We’re here to look out for you.

When the people representing you start stealing your money it makes you wonder how much they are looking out for you.

Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by xyzzyz on Friday November 27, 2020 @10:44AM (#25229534)
I wouldn’t call “ex-president of the union being 15th person charged in conspiracy embezzlement” a low grade corruption: if that’s low grade, what would high grade corruption look like?
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by wavefunction on Friday November 27, 2020 @11:35AM (#25230088)
I'd say the PPP loans offered to large corporations for "Covid relief" are high-grade corruption due to the sums involved, the explicit removal of traditional oversight processes and funneling it through the US banking system even though the banks were only responsible for collating paperwork and not providing any sort of risk-assessment or capital for the loans themselves.
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by Aunche on Friday November 27, 2020 @01:23PM (#25231282)
The PPP loans were meant to go to those corporations. Congress wanted to incentivize Shake Shack to not lay off their employees. It wasn't their own idea.
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by TedDoesntTalk on Friday November 27, 2020 @02:07PM (#25231658)
How is this relevant to Union corruption? Are you denying there is significant corruption or just offering a red herring (PPP loans) to distract me?
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by Aunche on Friday November 27, 2020 @03:41PM (#25232403)
I'm not responding to you? If anything, I'm on your "side," since the question of "what is high grade corruption" has not been answered yet.
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by mushbino on Friday November 27, 2020 @04:28PM (#25232733)
I know more than a few people who received large PPP loans (>$6M) and they had no legitimate need for them. They just filled out the applications and got the money just because they could. Knowing that, I'm sure there are much more egregious examples.
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by TedDoesntTalk on Friday November 27, 2020 @12:54PM (#25230933)
Perhaps. There's lots of corruption in the world. Consistent and unrelenting corruption of American Unions contributed significantly to their downfall, whether or not other forms of corruption exist.

One of my first jobs was working part-time in a grocery store: collecting shopping carts, "clean up in aisle 7", stocking shelves, etc. I was 16 and forced to pay dues to a union. The dues were deducted from my minimum-wage paycheck. I had NO opt-out option. I worked maybe 10 hours per week? I was a high school student. I got ZERO benefit by paying union dues. This extortion was corruption in itself, nevermind the executive-level corruption that makes headlines every few years.

Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by 6510 on Friday November 27, 2020 @02:25PM (#25231803)
How much was that? Prices seem to vary wildly around the world.
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by xyzzyz on Friday November 27, 2020 @01:53PM (#25231546)
Regardless of merits of your PPP loans as corruption argument, what I’m more interested in is what “high grade” corruption would look like in context of a trade union. Is an organization like UAW, of half a million members, and $200M of annual revenue capable of “high grade” corruption? What does it look like, if indicting 15 members including ex president ain’t it?
Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by TedDoesntTalk on Friday November 27, 2020 @10:46AM (#25229563)
This is just one example of hundreds over the decades, painting a consistent thread of corruption.

The most famous example is Jimmy Hoffa, whose story has been made into films... including one in 1992 with Jack Nicholson.

“ Hoffa became involved with organized crime from the early years of his Teamsters work, a connection that continued until his disappearance in 1975. He was convicted of jury tampering, attempted bribery, conspiracy, and mail and wire fraud in 1964 in two separate trials.”

One example of many.

> This sort of thing happens in private corporations

Private corporations have a mission to make money. Unions have a completely different mission.

Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by pr0zac on Friday November 27, 2020 @01:14PM (#25231187)
Private corporations have a mission of generating wealth for the people that make it up, their stockholders. Unions have the same mission just for their members. Its pretty comparable.

Private corporations also have a pretty consistent thread of corruption, a similar example to the one you gave being HSBC laundering money for drug cartels. Again, pretty comparable.

This isn't to say corruption in unions hasn't been part of why they've declined, its almost definitely part of it. While a corrupt corporate leader generally creates more money for its stockholders a corrupt union rep often costs the rank-and-file members which can greatly sour their opinions of unions as a whole. But there's nothing inherent to unions with regard to corruption, people in power often take advantage of their position no matter what type of structure they have that power in, and the point that it appears, at least to some people, that unions are held to a different standard than other types of organizations is worthy of being discussed.

Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by awakeasleep on Friday November 27, 2020 @03:35PM (#25232344)
The weird twist to this tale is that the teamster's pensions didn't disappear or get cut when they were invested through the mob.

However, after that corruption was cleared up and the pensions moved to Goldman and Northern Trust, the funds were destroyed and benefits to retireeswere deeply cut.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-the-teamsters-pension-...

Re:Amazon Workers to Stage Coordinated Black Friday Protests... by siliconmountain on Friday November 27, 2020 @11:48AM (#25230230)
Netflix just made a 3 hour movie about this - The Irishman.

I had to keep pausing and checking if something was real as I couldn't believe how bad things got