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Re:Music Production on Guix System by PaulDavisThe1st on Thursday November 26, 2020 @12:39PM (#25222022)
The author is honest enough to admit their "superficial" reasons for using the CALF plugin suite, but unfortunately then claims that they also "sound really good".

People should be aware that we (the developers of Ardour) STRONGLY recommend against the use of the CALF plugin suite. Not only do numerous of these plugins have basic DSP mistakes in them, but they are also one of the most regular source of crashes for Ardour users.

There are better alternatives for every single plugin the CALF suite, and we encourage you to use try them, even if they don't look quite so "pretty".

Re:Music Production on Guix System by rekado on Thursday November 26, 2020 @01:27PM (#25222397)
Honest author here -- I'm very happy that you noticed my humble blog post! I'm a big fan of Ardour and have been using it in my amateurish ways on and off since 200...7?

I wasn't aware of the Calf plugins being a source of crashes. Recent versions of Ardour have never crashed on me (different story for earlier versions). "Basic DSP mistakes" also sounds alarming. I'll take note of that for future projects.

Perhaps the pretty UI could be adapted for suggested alternatives. It would help all those superficial people like me to migrate :)

On a more serious note I like how intuitive the Calf UI is; almost every plugin lays out its primary parameters in a way that is very compatible with how I approach my work. I'm a command line person, so I certainly could make do with automatically generated interfaces from the LV2 manifests, but ... I try to shed my developer persona when having fun with audio, so anything pretty that keeps me from thinking too much helps to keep me in the zone.

Re:Music Production on Guix System by afro88 on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:26PM (#25223281)
> "Basic DSP mistakes" also sounds alarming.

It does, but as a musician, I don't think anyone should care so much about this. If you like how it sounds, and it's working in your productions - great!

Re:Music Production on Guix System by PaulDavisThe1st on Thursday November 26, 2020 @03:33PM (#25223317)
Zipper noise when adjusting parameters? This is about as basic as it gets. If you can't hear it, you probably shouldn't be mixing your own music, because lots of other people will.

(of course, "DSP mistakes" can often be used creatively and there's nothing wrong with that)

Re:Music Production on Guix System by te_chris on Thursday November 26, 2020 @05:15PM (#25223910)
Dude, chill. End result is what matters, if it’s music, it’s music.
Re:Music Production on Guix System by soperj on Thursday November 26, 2020 @05:56PM (#25224146)
Lol. The guy wrote Ardour. Might know a thing or two.
Re:Music Production on Guix System by te_chris on Friday November 27, 2020 @05:24AM (#25227329)
He said the guy shouldn’t be making music, which takes it from technical criticism to bs. It’s the music that counts, not how it’s made.
Re:Music Production on Guix System by PaulDavisThe1st on Friday November 27, 2020 @11:13AM (#25229833)
Actually, I didn't say that. I said they shouldn't be mixing their own music.

Until a decade or two ago, almost no musician ever mixed their own music, they relied on audio engineers to do that. The proliferation of DAWs and cheap powerful computers has changed that so that now many musicians believe they can/should do this work themselves. They're not necessarily wrong, but a little humility is required I think, mostly by remembering that good audio engineering is a distinct skill set, quite different from being a good musician.

Although there are few exceptions, I'd wager that almost no example of whatever you (or anyone else) considers "great music" was mixed by the musicians who made it.

Re:Music Production on Guix System by dumpsterdiver on Friday November 27, 2020 @12:11PM (#25230448)
> It’s the music that counts, not how it’s made.

Exactly. That's why PaulDavisThe1st's suggestion was IMO completely reasonable. Mixing is a skillset that not only takes time to master, but also requires that you keep your ears healthy - which is something that many musicians don't always do (myself included). Not only that, a professional mixer understands that you can only mix for so long in a single session before your ears become fatigued and you can no longer trust them (until you give them rest).

I would argue that if someone cares primarily about the end result of the music then it should be easy to put aside their pride and allow the experts to do their job and help them sound better.

Re:Music Production on Guix System by rekado on Friday November 27, 2020 @05:52AM (#25227525)
It doesn't faze me, because I'm not automating plugin parameters for things like reverb, compression, etc, so zipper noises simply don't happen. If I were to use automation and dynamically adjust parameters during playback and noise littered my tracks I'd agree with Paul: if I couldn't hear that it would be a terrible idea for me to mix the tracks myself!

That said, I did find a couple of spots where I forgot to crossfade the edges of punch in/out points, so there are quiet but audible clicks. Oh well. That's what happens when you mix audio with the headphones slightly off to be able to hear if the baby is sleeping poorly next door... :)

The point was to have some creative fun and have it quickly. That's what it was, so I'm happy.

Re:Music Production on Guix System by AndrewUnmuted on Thursday November 26, 2020 @01:16PM (#25222306)
Ah, yes, I remember the days when I would try to use the CALF Reverb plugin, only to have its use result in numerous "audio explosions" while working on mixes. Luckily none of my gear ever got damaged but it was possible given the wacky setup I was using at the time.

I discovered the Dragonfly Reverb [0] at some point and I never looked back.

PS, every time I encounter you on the internet I make sure to say, THANK YOU for Ardour!

[0] https://github.com/michaelwillis/dragonfly-reverb

Re:Music Production on Guix System by andrewzah on Thursday November 26, 2020 @12:51PM (#25222115)
There are better alternatives for every single plugin the CALF suite"

Is there a list of these anywhere?

Re:Music Production on Guix System by grawprog on Thursday November 26, 2020 @01:07PM (#25222238)
Check out the LSP plugins. Don't think they can replace all calf plugins but I've been starting to replace the calf plugins I use with them. I like their equalizers better than the calf ones. Been starting to check out their filters. Their room builder looks pretty awesome but I haven't played with it.

https://lsp-plug.in/

Re:Music Production on Guix System by ubercow13 on Thursday November 26, 2020 @12:50PM (#25222103)
Is there a list of suggestions or alternatives for Ardour?
Re:Music Production on Guix System by PaulDavisThe1st on Thursday November 26, 2020 @01:22PM (#25222354)
We don't keep this list as up to date as I'd like:

https://manual.ardour.org/working-with-plugins/getting-plugi...