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Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by robcohen on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:44PM (#25193336)
I would agree if California was a shall-issue state for CCW, but it's a may-issue state. Essentially it's arbitrarily up to the sheriffs department if you can get a CCW.

Personally, I chose to live in shall-issue states.

Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by jkaplowitz on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:53PM (#25193429)
The sheriff's department wasn't allowed to refuse the permit for this reason, as evidenced by the fact that the officials involved are also being criminally charged for the bribery scheme.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by R0b0t1 on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:33PM (#25193772)
They're being charged because it looks like they accepted a bribe, not because they refused a permit. If they hadn't paid there'd be nothing to charge them with.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by zepto on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:44PM (#25194716)
For all the people saying - ‘he should have gone to the FBI’ this is a key point.

If he didn’t pay the bribe there would have been nothing to report.

Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:52PM (#25193423)
I can't see how any may-issue schemes are legal when it comes to equal protection rights.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by jkaplowitz on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:55PM (#25193454)
If may-issue schemes are applied in a way that evaluates the individual case on neutral and non-discriminatory criteria, even if a subjective element of judgment exists, it certainly can comply with equal protection rights.

If they're applied in an unequal way, of course that's different.

Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by tengbretson on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:38PM (#25194681)
There's no such thing as a non-discriminatory may-issue scheme. They are by definition discriminatory.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:00PM (#25193508)
If the criteria isn't codified, then how can it be equally applied?
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by jkaplowitz on Monday November 23, 2020 @10:33PM (#25195003)
Courts are very familiar with adjudicating such ambiguity and have been throughout history. They simply have to avoid discriminating in ways that violate the law, but other forms of subjectivity.

As a stupid but illustrative hypothetical example, if the official decides each morning whether he will approve all CCW applications he sees that day or none of them based on a die roll before leaving home, and then unilaterally changes it a month later to go based on whether the last digit of the local CBS affiliate's high temperature forecast from the 7am newscast is odd or even, these stupid rules and rule changes would be completely compliant with the equal protection clause.

Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @10:36PM (#25195028)
They have to provide legal reasoning. Simply using an arbitrary die roll would not be lawful, unless the legislature specified it.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by Reelin on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @12:16AM (#25195517)
Using a die roll would be arbitrary and capricious (and thus I assume illegal), but would it violate equal protection specifically? I suspect not.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by jkaplowitz on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @01:14AM (#25195817)
It's probably illegal, agreed, but because it wouldn't pass even the rational basis test for a Second Amendment infringement. It definitely wouldn't violate the equal protection rights.

I don't believe the legislature has to specify the criteria used, if they explicitly give the local officials discretion, but their criteria do have to have some rational objective.

Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by kmonsen on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:51PM (#25193412)
That is just bullshit. May issue does not mean may according to bribe.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:53PM (#25193435)
How do you explain denials in a may-issue system if the individual meets statutory requirements?
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by geofft on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:01PM (#25193520)
It's just like employment discrimination. In an at-will-employment jurisdiction, my boss is free to arbitrarily fire me, but cannot specifically fire me for e.g. my race.

(How do you tell the difference? Well, as in this case, usually people leave some sort of evidence, and the legal system has a process for demanding evidence and evaluating it. It's not perfect, but it's certainly not unenforceable.)

Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by ummonk on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:31PM (#25193753)
You’ve got it backwards. Instances where they do leave evidence are the exception, not the norm. Which is why the anti discrimination laws are somewhat toothless and the government tries to look for statistical evidence of discrimination.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by tshaddox on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:00PM (#25193503)
Does the driving test requirement to receive a driver’s license mean that driver’s licenses are may-issue?
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:02PM (#25193526)
Nope, that's also shall-issue in most states. If you meet the statutory requirements (passing the test, age, etc), then they must issue the license.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by tshaddox on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:04PM (#25193538)
But the test is necessarily subjective. The instructor can determine, for instance, whether the applicant drove recklessly during the exam.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:12PM (#25193598)
Sort of. I kind of hate that reckless driving law since it is somewhat subjective. Each state should have case law about it and allow you your due process rights to challenge it too. But yeah, I can see in the context of the test that it could be a problem. If you record the test, then you should be able to challenge it (sad it sometimes comes to that).

I'm in a similar situation, actually. I had a trooper lie in court and even admit to it in the complaint investigation, but the investigator (another trooper) said it must be a misunderstanding. I'm curious how intentionally lying to cover up your mistake (exculpatory evidence) is a misunderstanding as a civil rights violation under Brady v MD, but I also don't want to get 'suicided'.

Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by tshaddox on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:18PM (#25193637)
It would be extremely difficult to define all driving rules objectively even if you had extremely high resolution data of the car and its surroundings. Approximately as difficult as programming a fully autonomous car, I reckon.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:47PM (#25193898)
Not really. The driving laws except for recklessness are very well defined.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by tshaddox on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:17PM (#25194557)
That’s not the case. There are tons of driving laws that are based essentially on a subjective idea of what is safe or reasonable. Laws about cargo being secured safely. Laws about the driver’s view not being unreasonably obstructed. Laws about the driver being distracted. Laws about exercising appropriate caution in response to traffic, weather and road conditions, the presence of pedestrians and other dangers and obstacles, etc. There are tons.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by giantg2 on Monday November 23, 2020 @09:58PM (#25194802)
Not when you look at case law. Also some of that varies from state to state.
Re:Apple’s head of security indicted in Santa Clara County C... by samatman on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:41PM (#25193850)
The part of the test administered by the state is objective, in all three states in which I've obtained a license.

The part which is subjective is deputized to instructors, and one can shop around for a willing one.

The moral hazard you're alluding to is completely absent.