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Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ummonk on Monday November 23, 2020 @03:56PM (#25191749)
It doesn't matter what your understanding of the science is. By passing other people without having a mask you pull up, you're imposing your estimates of safety on others, who may wish to avoid having to pass people who aren't wearing masks, even outdoors.

That's extremely obnoxious behavior, even though you're likely right on the low risks of transmission in sparse outdoor settings.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by gnusty_gnurc on Monday November 23, 2020 @05:40PM (#25192807)
> you're imposing your estimates of safety on others, who may wish to avoid having to pass people who aren't wearing masks, even outdoors

This is precisely the insufferable safety-ism that characterizes the 21st century.

If you feel particularly at risk in the case of infection, and you'd wish to avoid infection - stay inside and isolate.

Isn't completely fair to say that the frail among us are imposing on everyone else outdoors keeping healthy and not depressed by exercising, etc?

If you "may wish to avoid having to pass people who aren't wearing masks": stay home!

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ghaff on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:11PM (#25191961)
I agree up to a point. Though I'd observe that outdoor dining with tables separated by 6 feet with people sitting for an extended period of time without masks is happening widely in many places. So the idea that outdoor dining is safe but walking past other people on a trail is not is pretty inconsistent.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ddod on Monday November 23, 2020 @05:11PM (#25192558)
I didn't see the commenter arguing on behalf of outdoor dining, so that's a bit of a straw man argument. Additionally, there's a difference between people opting to participate in mutually risky behavior (eating maskless in a restaurant during a pandemic) vs. imposing their risky behavior on people not participating (maskless jogging in shared spaces where others are acting responsibly by wearing masks).
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by GiorgioG on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:18PM (#25192041)
I see it all the time and I personally think it's incredibly irresponsible. But hey - we have to keep the restaurants in business...at the expense of prolonging the pandemic.

Here's an idea, you can already keep them in business, order delivery w/ no-contact delivery.

Yes, life is certainly inconvenienced, but what's the alternative? Is going out to dinner worth directly or indirectly killing another human being over?

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by umvi on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:30PM (#25192169)
> But hey - we have to keep the restaurants in business...at the expense of prolonging the pandemic.

Could you elaborate on what "prolong" means? Say we shut down the entire country for 4 weeks and get the virus under control. Is the pandemic now "over" (i.e. no longer prolonged) and we can reopen restaurants again at full capacity and just treat individual outbreaks? Or is it going to be cyclical where cases start rising again and the governors start cracking down again ad infinitum? For island nations that can control who goes in and out it's one thing, but it's going to be very hard for USA or EU which has open borders between states to control spread of contagious disease.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ghaff on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:23PM (#25192103)
Or the people who don't want to eat at restaurants and walk past people on a trail should just stay home. I certainly haven't seen the evidence that these are risky activities. You can't eliminate any risk without literally putting everyone in quarantine by themselves.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by GiorgioG on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:35PM (#25192215)
> Or the people who don't want to eat at restaurants and walk past people on a trail should just stay home.

Spoken like a true narcisist. This is the exact behavior that produces the continued rise in cases across the country.

> I certainly haven't seen the evidence that these are risky activities.

Well, I'm glad you've appointed yourself epidemiologist-in-chief.

> You can't eliminate any risk without literally putting everyone in quarantine by themselves.

No, you can eliminate much of the risk by isolating with your household, occupation permitting.

A little compassion for people would go a long way.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ghaff on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:59PM (#25192450)
I am following the rules in my very blue state. ADDED: (And, in fact, going beyond them as I'll pull up a neck gaiter on a trail if I'm approaching although distanced from people wearing masks--to increase their comfort level.) I also mostly avoid busier recreation areas and have only done outdoor dining a couple of times. But, yes, I think that so long as people are following what seem to be fairly conservative government guidelines, those who don't agree with the government's assessment should stay home rather than expect people en masse to behave in ways that go beyond state mandates and recommendations.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by basicneo on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:10PM (#25191938)
When someone drives a car, they impose their estimates of safety on pedestrians.

Is that obnoxious?

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by andrewem on Monday November 23, 2020 @05:52PM (#25192887)
Yes. People driving kill thousands of pedestrians every year.

People act like “but cars kill more people!” is an argument in favor of whatever dangerous thing they’re talking about, not an argument against the way cars and roads are designed and operated.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by basicneo on Monday November 23, 2020 @05:53PM (#25192893)
I agree, FWIW.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ummonk on Monday November 23, 2020 @08:19PM (#25194126)
In many cases yes. E.g. drivers who use residential streets as through streets are certainly obnoxious.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by deadmutex on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:33PM (#25192197)
I don't think you can accurately make simple analogies like this. What is discussed here is more like what speed you should be going if you driving path intersects a pedestrian's path (possibly in a crosswalk). Then there is a difference between someone stopping and seeing the pedestrian is very far away and turning right vs. someone doing a 45 mph and driving within a few feet of a pedestrian. Different drivers and pedestrians will have different expectations.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by basicneo on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:35PM (#25192224)
No, it's all degrees of risk.

The only accurate way is to quantify the risk, rather than blindly assert "extremely obnoxious behavior".

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by seanyesmunt on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:11PM (#25191964)
If they don't want to pass people that aren't wearing masks, shouldn't they stay home?
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by SomeoneFromCA on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:34PM (#25192210)
No they should not, because to wear the mask all the time is much easier than to stay home all the time. Unless you are some entitled narcissist or something.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by JPKab on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:13PM (#25191990)
I support wearing masks, but have seen the science on outdoor transmission and don't wear one on the very empty trails I hike on. However, I saw a big flaw in your logic:

So it's "extremely obnoxious" when the OP "imposes their estimates of safety on others", and the correct response is for the OP to allow the misinformed estimates of safety of the others to require a mask be pulled up.

Why stop there? Some people think that a neck gaiter or cloth mask isn't enough. Why not wear an N95 outdoors since some people "wish to avoid having to pass people who aren't wearing [N95] masks, even outdoors".

Who gets to draw the line between obeying the science vs obeying the theatrical needs of the anxious ignoramuses? Surface transmission isn't a factor with this virus, and yet I know a few folks who still insist on disinfecting every box they come in contact with. They are welcome to do that, but it's certainly not following the science. Am I to cater to these people to?

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by GiorgioG on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:27PM (#25192142)
> Who gets to draw the line between obeying the science...

The science should! Here's what the CDC says for high intensity activities:

"Masks should be used in public settings, but if you are unable to wear a mask because of difficulty breathing during high intensity activities, choose a location with greater ventilation and air exchange (for instance, outdoors versus indoors) and where you can keep at least 6 feet from others during the activity."

The trails and parks around here (North Carolina) have enough traffic and people who believe "I do what I want" that I don't feel comfortable visiting these places period.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by kmonsen on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:09PM (#25191934)
I don’t know, I also run outdoors without a mask. If I see someone I cross the road and make sure I stay at least 5 m/yards away from anyone.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by pgodzin on Monday November 23, 2020 @05:46PM (#25192851)
Very hard to do in denser cities with narrow sidewalks and heavy foot traffic, or around park paths
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ummonk on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:12PM (#25191981)
Yeah that's very reasonable behavior.

I doubt the person upthread is doing this though, given that he seems to be going close enough to people that they can stop and scold him.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by kmonsen on Monday November 23, 2020 @10:49PM (#25195094)
Yeah, if someone tries to speak to me I run away for sure if I don't have a mask. Not going to have a discussion with strangers these days unless it is on the internet :-)
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by timr on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:07PM (#25191909)
"By passing other people without having a mask you pull up, you're imposing your estimates of safety on others, who may wish to avoid having to pass people who aren't wearing masks, even outdoors. That's extremely obnoxious behavior, even though you're likely right on the low risks of transmission in sparse outdoor settings."

Wait wait wait...why should everyone be required to cater to the most paranoid people in the world, or be considered "obnoxious"? Where does this end? If I walk down the street, and someone twenty feet away from me scowls at me because I'm not wearing a mask, that's objectively their problem, not mine.

If you're so scared that you can't stand the idea of someone else being outside without obeying your rules, then perhaps you should reconsider being outside in the first place.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by ummonk on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:09PM (#25191924)
If you're annoyed by getting scolded for not wearing a mask, maybe you shouldn't be outside in the first place.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by timr on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:12PM (#25191976)
I'm not annoyed. I recognize that some people have personal problems that I cannot change.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by JPKab on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:22PM (#25192075)
I NEVER go within 10 feet of people on a trail without a mask. The rule is 6 feet, and I add the extra few feet to remove ambiguity. When I go to certain trails in the Boulder, CO area, there are many "mask nazis" who clearly are extremely paranoid, and on a power trip. They will absolutely not hesitate to scold and holler despite me walking off the trail and not going anywhere near them. Your assumption that everyone is rational and people getting scolded is a sign of their guilt is just wrong.

For anyone that lives in the area, the worst are the Nederland residents. Territorial assholes when there isn't a pandemic, and now they feel empowered to really let you have it. Going 10 miles south to trails in Jefferson County, and as long as you stay 6 feet or more, people smile and tell you to have a nice hike.