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Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by mikeyouse on Monday November 23, 2020 @03:17PM (#25191214)
The Federal Government is completely failing here. States can't run deficits, usually by force of law. They'd rather confirm judges than pass legislation to help, all of this damage is completely self-inflicted.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by nradov on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:35PM (#25192211)
That's not a Federal issue. States might not be able to run deficits in quite the same way that the Federal government can but if States need additional revenue to support favored businesses then they can certainly raise taxes.

Some state governments such as Florida allow restaurants to remain open. We can debate whether that is a good policy from a pandemic control standpoint, but why should Floridians pay Federal taxes to support restaurants that were forcibly shut down by a California county?

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by mikeyouse on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:54PM (#25192397)
Raising taxes in a downturn is a ridiculous idea and we should pay everyone to stay shut until the virus is under control.

You could also ask why Californians should pay the Medicare taxes associated with Florida's much higher rate of COVID infection due to their opening of restaurants and the state's higher elderly population.. We're all in this together, the economy won't be back to normal until Covid is gone and all of these ridiculous states flaunting obvious public health rules are costing everyone much more than it would take to just pay restaurant employees and everyone else to stay home for a few more months.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by notassigned on Monday November 23, 2020 @08:31PM (#25194232)
The money to pay for bailouts has to come from taxes, otherwise we just create inflation which causes other problems.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by bargl on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:07PM (#25191907)
It's still a valid concern. The government has mandated these businesses shut their doors it should also mandate that they get the assistance needed (which I'm hoping will come next year).

Small businesses can't afford a lot of the overhead of shuttering their doors and still paying mortgages etc. The employees there can't afford it either. I'm not saying it's a bad/good call by leaders. I'm just saying if you are mandated to shut your business, you should be able to "turn off" the economic issues associated with that. Mortgage gets extended, taxes get deferred, etc.

This is definitely a weakness of pure capitalism in a regulation environment like today. We cant shut down a businesses income and expect their expenses to remain the same.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by 18pfsmt on Monday November 23, 2020 @04:58PM (#25192440)
In a free market, the government doesn't have the right to take the decision away from the individual about how much risk they can tolerate. Some politicians infringing on the rights of others doesn't justify further intrusions on the natural rights of others.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by bargl on Monday November 23, 2020 @06:34PM (#25193245)
We don't have a free market, or we wouldn't have fire departments, police departments, schools, military, funding for crops, or any government budgets.

The idea that we are a pure free market is as absurd as saying that china is pure communism. There is no pure government out there that meets the academic definition of the market they espouse. It's just not possible, never has been, never will be (I usually don't speak in absolutes but feel pretty 99.999% comfortable with this statement). There will always be gray outside the academic setting.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by mikeyouse on Monday November 23, 2020 @07:09PM (#25193577)
It also fails at a more practical sense too - "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face." People "choosing" to not wear a mask and to go to restaurants where the staff can't similarly "choose" to not be there is just subjecting everyone else to infection. For its other merits, libertarianism absolutely fails in a pandemic when the only possible response is collective action. Americans have such a limited definition of freedom it's almost comical.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 concentrations and virus-laden aerosol distrib... by bargl on Tuesday November 24, 2020 @07:12PM (#25204546)
> "The freedom to swing your arm stops at my face."

Err not really, if you go full swing on someone and you "intended" to stop but they block your arm and punch you in the face, arguably it's your fault. If they kill you with that punch then they would be at fault. The law around freedom is really complex. Freedom in the US isn't limited, it's complicated.

When American's use the word freedom most of them are being dumb. You do have freedoms that are protected, but that doesn't mean what you think is a freedom actually is a freedom.

I'm also going to pick on your example of the restaurant. The staff at a restaurant does get to choose to be there or not, that's a free economy. If the government shuts down restaurants, like they have in some states, then the staff can no longer choose to take on that risk. Everyone gets to choose, but there is also an obligation/responsibility with freedom that people in the USA don't seem to "get".

You are FREE to get a gun, you are then responsible for using it wisely. Lock it up, get trained with it, be safe, and learn when to pull it out. The jerks on CNN who had the rifle and were pointing it at the crowd are a great example of irresponsibility with freedom. They should have never, EVER pointed a gun at someone who did not pose an imminent threat to their person. Back to the punching example, everyone who sees a fake punch can judge HOW fake it was. Did they stop at the nose, did they just jerk their arm, did they go Suuuppppeeerrrrr slow. Those judgements matter in court to show that the person who fought back was being reasonable. The burden of reasonable action is even higher with a knife/gun.

Take free speech for example, you can actually sign away your right to free speech in a contract. There is a commedian who talks about things that are illegal to say. Free speech applies to the press, not to individuals being ass hats.

Anyway, all of that is me saying, freedom in the USA is a slogan, which is dumb. Meme's do not present great arguments, but the freedoms we do have are as well defined under the law as most place. People just don't know them.