News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Agrees to Pay $113M to Settle 'Batterygate' Case ov... by rasz on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @08:32PM (#25145196)
Phone is not an electric car. Capacitors are a feasible solution for momentary high load.

Those phones just had tired depleted batteries and the proper thing to do was offer users battery replacement, not lie to their faces while upselling new model.

Re:Apple Agrees to Pay $113M to Settle 'Batterygate' Case ov... by udba on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @08:40PM (#25145253)
A high power workload on a phone might require ~5-10W over 100ms, i.e. ~0.5 joules. At 4V capacitor voltage, you would need ~30mF capacitor. Not likely to fit in a phone.

This assumes you’re powering the phone solely off the cap. Even with a battery you’d still need something in the mF range to make up for the battery’s degradation.

Re:Apple Agrees to Pay $113M to Settle 'Batterygate' Case ov... by Dylan16807 on Thursday November 19, 2020 @01:17AM (#25146759)
The first data sheet I pulled up has an option for 47mF at 4.5V in 20x15x2.3mm of supercap. So it would fit if you really wanted.
Re:Apple Agrees to Pay $113M to Settle 'Batterygate' Case ov... by Dylan16807 on Thursday November 19, 2020 @05:09AM (#25147948)
Okay the reply got deleted but I already did all this math so I'm going to post anyway.

> [only able to use the cap from 4V to 3V]

> (C * 1V * 1V)/2

> [you'll need 1000mF]

Wrong equation. That's the energy from 0V to 1V. Each incremental volt stores more power than the last. 0V-3V is 9x that amount, and 0V-4V is 16x that amount, so 3V-4V is 7x that amount, and you'll need 140mF.

But also it shouldn't be connected directly in parallel to the battery; so I'd think of it more as 4.2V to 2V of supply. That would mean you need 74mF.

So put in two and you'll more than hit the target.

Even better, if you expect the battery to contribute some, you only need the one.

Re:Apple Agrees to Pay $113M to Settle 'Batterygate' Case ov... by aetherspawn on Thursday November 19, 2020 @07:10AM (#25148705)
Computers don’t create transient loads that last only a few hundred ms. (The components are already decoupled for that kind of transient).

When you open your mail and it has to perform a sync, for example, the transient may last for 10+ seconds and it’s not something you can fix with a supercap. You’d be better off adding more battery at that stage, as a larger battery has lower proportional sag for a given current (coulomb rates).

Another thing you can do is size your battery, say 20% larger than you require it, and only charge to 80%. This reduces ageing significantly, BUT consumers would never see this as a feature. They would just complain that the latest Apple phone has 20% less battery than the competitor and is $50 more expensive and heavier than the last model.

I’m taking it at a punt that 99% of regular consumers want to change their phone every 2-3 years (to get the latest camera, Face ID or car keys or whatever feature it might be), so that’s what Apple has targeted for the maximum age of their battery. Anything more is making a collective trade-off for the, perhaps, 1% no?