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Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by vinni2 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:04PM (#25143057)
> ISPs in Norway are imposing what the study calls “extremely aggressive” blocking across a broader range of content, including human rights websites like Human Rights Watch and online dating sites like Match.com.

I have no trouble accessing hrw.org and match.com in Norway. I wonder is it specific to some ISPs? I also couldn’t find any law that was passed to block certain pornogrpahic websites in Wikipedia [1] and I don’t know where else to look.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Norway

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by babas on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:27PM (#25143355)
When I read that, I immediately dismissed the whole article. Both HRW and match.com are available on the 4/5 ISPs I have access to ATM. Home (Telenor), mobile (Telia), server host (domeneshop), my office (Telia, wired) and a customer network (Not sure about the downstream ISP). On the last one match.com is blocked by a firewall not the ISP.

They should really check thier sources. My guess is that they tested on a network that has a filtering firewall.

Now that that is said. Norway is not perfect. The biggest ISPs use a easy to bypass DNS blocklist by the judiciary. The list contains CP-sites, gambling, piracy, terrorism. This is bad enough. Why lie about match.com and hrw.org? Jeez.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by fomine3 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @07:48PM (#25144860)
I agree from a Japanese point of view. I never heard any ISP censorship except child porn. Censoring news sites must be huge news but never heard.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by fomine3 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @07:53PM (#25144911)
> During the G20 period, we observed increased blocking of domains in the news media and E-commerce category in Japan. DNS blocking was observed in both categories while Echo blocking was seen in the E-commerce category to a smaller extent. The domains being blocked during this time period included popular news domains such as online.wsj.com and washingtonpost.com under the news media category and kickstarter.com and marketwatch.com under the E-commerce umbrella.

Lol. Blocking kickstarter.com for G20? It must be false positive or ISP's DNS server is just suck.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by pitay on Thursday November 19, 2020 @04:50AM (#25147849)
Here is an example from Australia:

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/isps-in-au-and-nz...

What's interesting is the Prime Minister made it explicitly legal for ISPs to do this. Couldn't find the exact news on this but a search turned up the following article which is sort of what I remember https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/04/04/soci-a04.html .

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by fiblye on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:33PM (#25146252)
Yeah, the article mentions some news sites being banned temporarily in Japan, but as someone who reads those sites near daily, I never noticed it happening.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by systemvoltage on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @06:14PM (#25143929)
It could be a mistake, not an intentional lie.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by babas on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @06:28PM (#25144082)
Probably. After reading the paper I'm pretty sure they messed up their testing.

The problem is that they blow it up HUGE both in the paper and the article without cursory checking. That is as bad as lie. Maybe even worse.

From The paper 7.1.2: "Censored Planet data reveals extremely aggressive DNS blocking of many domains in Norway, with many blocks being consistent in all of our vantage points. During the four month period of increased censorship, 25 ASes observed blocking of more than 10 domains in at least six categories. We observed the most rigorous activity in AS 2116 (CATCHCOM) where more than 50 domains were blocked."

Blocking more than 10 domains in 25 ASes I have no reason to doubt. As I said there is extensive DNS blocking. So they write in a way that makes it sound like all the ASes are blocking hrw.org and match. But it's probably only on CATCHCOM. This is a ISP for mostly huge corporate environments where blocking may be by customer demand. So they take one single source of "anomaly" and blow it up. Pretty much a lie.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by rsynnott on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @08:36PM (#25145228)
It’s such an egregious mistake that you’d have to assume the rest of their data is similarly worthless.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by libraryatnight on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @08:52PM (#25145325)
I agree. I mean, were I not a skeptic I'd be walking around dropping the interesting tidbit that "Norway blocks match.com" - it's as bad as the info-memes with nonsense on them people quote from facebook.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by TeMPOraL on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @06:49PM (#25144303)
Could be. But I also don't recall any of the blocking in Poland they refer to.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by mimi89999 on Thursday November 19, 2020 @06:04PM (#25155422)
I also did not notice it. Will need to check OONI Probe.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by doktrin on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @09:49PM (#25145677)
I checked as well (Globalconnect wired; Telenor mobile). It's a fairly ridiculous claim, one which if true would have attracted instant media attention.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by einpoklum on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @06:48PM (#25144293)
Piracy sites? That's strange. Why would Norway block sites like: http://t.ly/TdrE ?

I'm sure you got it wrong and what they actually block is Ninja sites.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by blacksmith_tb on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:13PM (#25143173)
Looking in the citations in the article itself, these are the references provided, neither of which seem entirely convincing to me:

https://calvinayre.com/2018/05/10/business/norway-approves-g...

https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/norwegian-politic...

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by doktrin on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @09:20PM (#25145486)
That PIA blog post is not exactly high quality.

> Norwegian politicians from the Christian People’s Party are shocked that there is porn on the Internet, and want it eliminated – censored off all the Internet pipes as though the pornography doesn’t exist.

There's some truth here, but it's presented in a shoddy way. Yes, KrF (Christian People's Party) has at various times made noises about pornography DNS filters. I don't recall all the specifics, but various proposals have included opt-out DNS filter and/or filters in schools and such. While I don't support these proposals, I think the language used really exaggerates the reality (and few or none of these measures have ever gained much headway, either at the national or local level)

> If you read the Norwegian Christian paper, though, it is expressing itself very positively toward this censorship (which is somewhat weird for a newspaper, any newspaper – those generally oppose censorship vehemently and defend any and all freedom of the press).

They really dug deep on this one. The paper in question (Dagen) has a circulation of slightly over 10,000. That's not even among the top 20 in the country [1]. I'd be skeptical of assigning much weight to their coverage.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_Norway

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by arp242 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @07:15PM (#25144562)
I know that in the Netherlands there is a specific very small ISP which caters to a certain religious crowd and blocks all sorts of "offensive" content (which is its main selling point).

Perhaps something similar is going on in Norway?

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by na85 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:08PM (#25143092)
>I don’t know where else to look.

Does Norway not publish its corpus of law online? Even in Canada where our government motto is "yesterday's technology today" we have websites where you can look up all legislation and read it.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by birktj on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @07:14PM (#25144544)
It does, they even have a selection that is translated to english [1]. However I don't know what kind of terms I would search for. I tried "DNS", but it didn't give me anything. I also tried "internet blocking", no luck there either.

[1]: https://lovdata.no/register/loverEngelsk

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by doktrin on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @10:27PM (#25145886)
If I'm inferring correctly from the wiki page on Norwegian internet, the DNS blacklist is not made public as they mention it was posted to wikileaks back in 2009. At the time I believe this was exclusively a CP blacklist [1]

The mandate to block torrent sites came about as a result of a court order following a lawsuit brought forth by Hollywood studios against Norwegian ISPs [2]. I tried to find the specific text on lovdata, but came up empty as they don't have a comprehensive list of local court decisions. [3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Norway#Internet_ce...

[2] https://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/the-pirate-bay-stenges-i-nor...

[3] https://lovdata.no/register/dommer

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by birktj on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @11:05PM (#25146118)
I believe it is the court case with ID TOSLO-2015-67093 [1]. Trough my old university account I still have access to lovdata pro so I was able to search for it and view it. I am to lazy to reupload it tonight, but if you are interested I could do it tomorrow.

[1]: https://lovdata.no/pro/#document/TRSIV/avgjorelse/toslo-2015...

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by vinni2 on Thursday November 19, 2020 @01:24PM (#25152585)
Exactly same thing I mentioned. It is so hard to search and explore these laws.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by vinni2 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:11PM (#25143131)
It probably does but it’s not easily searchable or finding this specific law with the information they provide in the article is very hard. Like the law jargon etc. it’s the job of the article to cite the link.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by Foxboron on Thursday November 19, 2020 @05:50AM (#25148190)
My guess is that they think DNS resolution failures are consorship. There where some insane numbers like 95% unavailability of pcgamer.com and worldofwarcraft.com in the article as well. It makes no sense.
Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by sdenton4 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @10:31PM (#25145906)
This reminds me of the disinformation smear campaign against the Canadian health care system run by US insurance companies since the nineties to prevent single payer health care laws from being passed...

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/19/925354134/frame-canada

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by ggggtez on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:39PM (#25143509)
I believe they are saying that it happened in 2018, not today.

It's possible that it was a mistake, and corrected, but it should still concern you that it was done to begin with.

Telecoms should not be the arbiters of what content you view.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by babas on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @05:53PM (#25143693)
I'm pretty sure it never happened. This would have been big news here. The technology press went ape when thepriatebay.org was added to a DNS blocklist. I have searched around and can not find any references to hrw or match being blocked by accident or not.

Either the article writer is confusing Norway with another country or this is just "Journalistic flair" i.e. a lie.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by ggggtez on Monday November 23, 2020 @02:59PM (#25191028)
Ok, so your gut feeling vs some scientific research? Could you try to debate the facts instead of a strawman journalist?

Why do you say this journalist is lying, but lack of evidence from other journalists must mean this one is wrong?

Pirate Bay is a big site, and journalists and the population would notice. But they might not know to look for other sites being censored. Just food for thought. I don't know whether to believe it either, but I'm willing to leave it to others to fact check more rigorously.

A perfectly reasonable explanation that obeys all the facts could be that a single telecom blocked access for a short time by mistake, was alerted, and silently fixed it before journalists noticed. I doubt many people are visiting hrw.org on a daily basis, and an outage like that could be mistaken for temporary website issues. A journalist would probably not assume it was a country-wide block and so wouldn't think to write an article about it.

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by jml7c5 on Wednesday November 18, 2020 @06:04PM (#25143841)
They say Dec 2019 to Mar 2020:

"Our anomaly detection alerted us to high scores in DNS blocking starting from December 2019 until March 2020"

Re:‘Extremely aggressive’ internet censorship spreads in the... by zrth on Thursday November 19, 2020 @02:59AM (#25147217)
They say Dec 2019 to Mar 2020: "Our anomaly detection alerted us to high scores in DNS blocking starting from December 2019 until March 2020"