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Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by Reason077 on Thursday November 12, 2020 @06:55AM (#25068850)
> "no AAA gaming"

This is, arguably, a disadvantage of any Mac.

But Apple Silicon may actually improve the situation over time, as having the same GPUs and APIs on Macs and iOS devices means there is now a much bigger market for game developers to target with the same codebase.

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by moondev on Thursday November 12, 2020 @07:03AM (#25068903)
It's more about losing the ability to boot into windows to game there, as well as losing egpu support.
Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by ralfd on Thursday November 12, 2020 @08:35AM (#25069659)
I agree. It is not without danger, the same as with Apps actually, that developers target only the iPad (touch interface) and don't care about optimizing for the Mac experience.

But on the whole I am optimistic.

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by theshrike79 on Friday November 13, 2020 @04:28AM (#25080621)
Apple has had support for game pads for a while now. This will just make it more viable.

The only issue might be multi-touch based games on M1

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by larrywright on Thursday November 12, 2020 @11:36AM (#25071586)
And don’t forget that all of the iPad/iPhone games will work on these laptops. That’s not quite the same thing as having major PC titles, but it’s not nothing either.
Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by lucasverra on Thursday November 12, 2020 @08:18AM (#25069500)
That and streaming direct to the browser
Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by Mindwipe on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:22AM (#25070793)
> But Apple Silicon may actually improve the situation over time, as having the same GPUs and APIs on Macs and iOS devices means there is now a much bigger market for game developers to target with the same codebase.

Not really. The business models for desktop gaming are completely different to mobile devices, and there is no meaningful common market.

I think people will actually be surprised at how few games from iOS will even run on an ARM Mac because developers will block them.

It used to be possible to do some gaming on a Mac - the vast, vast majority of Steam users have graphics hardware of a level that was perfectly achievable on a Mac, especially with an eGPU. The end of x86 is the end of that market, forever.

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by Reason077 on Thursday November 12, 2020 @11:13AM (#25071336)
> "the vast, vast majority of Steam users have graphics hardware of a level that was perfectly achievable on a Mac"

Exactly. So it was never really the hardware that held back gaming on Mac, but the fact that from a game-development perspective it's an esoteric platform that has limited or no support for the main industry standard APIs (DirectX, Vulkan, etc).

It was never worth the effort for most game developers to bother porting games to the Mac because writing a custom port for Metal was way too expensive to justify for such a niche market.

But now with Apple Silicon, that all changes. If you're going to port your game to iOS (and that's surely tempting - it's a huge platform/market with powerful GPUs and a "spendy" customer base) then you basically get Mac for free with close to zero additional effort.

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by Mindwipe on Monday November 16, 2020 @06:13AM (#25110395)
> Exactly. So it was never really the hardware that held back gaming on Mac, but the fact that from a game-development perspective it's an esoteric platform that has limited or no support for the main industry standard APIs (DirectX, Vulkan, etc).

I think it's more that gaming wasn't held back on the Mac. It was just bootcamp was much more common than people think.

> If you're going to port your game to iOS (and why not? It's a huge platform with powerful GPUs and a huge, "spendy" market)

Because mobile gaming and desktop gaming have very little in common. Note that Nintendo didn't port their titles when they released iOS games, they made new games. Users want different experiences, and flat ports of successful console gaming titles to iOS tend to fail. There are, all told, very few ports of successful PC/console games to iOS, and those that exist tend to be brand reuse rather than literal ports.

> then you basically get Mac for free with close to zero additional effort.

Not even remotely. The way you secure your service has to be totally different, the UI paradigm is completely different, you have to cope with totally different aspect ratios etc etc. It's significant effort, and it will be very hard to justify for most game studios. It's certainly more work in most cases than porting a Windows game to MacOS was when using a mainstream engine, and that was not a huge market.

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by mthoms on Thursday November 12, 2020 @10:45AM (#25071040)
Why would developers "block" their iOS games from running on ARM Macs?
Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by Mindwipe on Thursday November 12, 2020 @11:14AM (#25071351)
1) Macs are harder to consider secure, they're effectively all jailbroken. Cheating/bypassing in app purchases will be rampant, reducing the opportunity for cross play, and the Mac market isn't big enough itself. These aren't insurmountable issues, but they require investment, and the additional Mac market probably isn't worth the outlay and risk.

2) You have to rebuild the UI, which costs money which the Mac version may well not recoup.

3) You have a different version for desktops that costs more upfront with less reliance on in-app mechanics that you don't want to undermine.

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by Reason077 on Thursday November 12, 2020 @11:22AM (#25071431)
> "Macs are harder to consider secure, they're effectively all jailbroken."

OK, but that's no different to Windows and Android.

> "You have to rebuild the UI"

No. Even with apps this is no longer the case (see: "Mac Catalyst"), but it's certainly not true for games. Maybe you'd need to add some keyboard/mouse bindings, but that's about it. Even iPads support keyboards and mice now days!

Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by Hammershaft on Thursday November 12, 2020 @12:43PM (#25072381)
So if an ios title uses a multi touch gesture how do you replicate that on MacOS?
Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by jonnytran on Thursday November 12, 2020 @01:17PM (#25072839)
Every MacBook has a multitouch trackpad. It's rare that I ever use a mouse.
Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by thirdsun on Tuesday November 17, 2020 @06:05AM (#25122323)
Still doesn't account for desktop devices. And no, it's not a given that every desktop mac user has a Magic Trackpad.
Re:Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end... by mamon on Thursday November 12, 2020 @01:08PM (#25072713)
You can do those multitouch gestures on TouchBar /s