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Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by dodobirdlord on Monday November 09, 2020 @09:52PM (#25042409)
Nutrition in childhood, especially early childhood, is extremely critical to development. The average person historically was remarkably short, generally because of childhood malnourishment. Simply being properly nourished in childhood would have led to a huge height and weight advantage (also probably considerable advantages in brain development). Even into the 18th century the average height of an officer in the British military was about 8in more than that of the enlisted men.

On top of that a knight would have eaten a lot more fat, meat, and vegetables than a peasant, who would have lived almost entirely on bread. This wouldn’t have left the peasant totally protein-starved because it was bread made from whole grains, but a knight would have been getting much better returns on their exercise throughout life due to their more varied diet.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by barry-cotter on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:05PM (#25042472)
> The average person historically was remarkably short, generally because of childhood malnourishment.

I believe the average member of the House of Commons was visibly shorter than the members of the House of Lords at least through WWII. Certainly Americans were obviously taller than Europeans until after WWII. Even American slaves were taller and children were generally malnourished until about seven when they became capable of working. Adult height seems to have been unaffected reflecting just how rich the US was comparatively. Complete unfeeling bastards didn’t malnourish children enough to do permanent damage.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by lostlogin on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:21PM (#25042542)
This checks out - thanks.

The below article makes mention of a fact that may complicate things though - big strong slaves were worth more. Presumably slave owners had this in mind so had an ulterior motive for feeding slaves better.

It’s one bleak subject.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11718681_The_Height...

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by zrobotics on Monday November 09, 2020 @11:26PM (#25042804)
Super horrible, but consider that slaves were incredibly valuable. The middle class of farmers in the antebellum south would barely have been able to afford one, the plantation owners were stupendously wealthy. This, in part, explains why the south was able to wield such outsize political influence.

Very bleak, but slave owners had a large economic incentive to make sure their slaves were fit for work (although that didn't cause qualms on other, more brutal forms of mistreatment). The only way they treated them well was in providing food, but that wasn't due to kindness but more from the same motivation to feed a team of draft horses well. It's tough reading, but some of the ledgers kept by plantation owners really drive the point home that they viewed slaves more akin to livestock than people. And they somehow justified what they were doing as christian and moral.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by s1artibartfast on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:39PM (#25042613)
Do You have a citation for the 8 inches claim?

I found this interesting article while looking:

Heights across the Last 2,000 Years in England: https://oro.open.ac.uk/53774/3/53774.pdf

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by dodobirdlord on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:54AM (#25044249)
I believe it must have come from Height, Health and History by Roderick Floud, but I can't find a digital copy of that book to link, despite it being 30 years old. The closest thing I could find is another work citing Floud, and only with regard to the difference in height at the beginning of the 19th century. It gives "nearly 6 inches taller", but note that it's comparing 14-year-olds in 1800, when nutrition for the lower classes was on the upswing.

> Floud et al. also showed that men who grew up in urban areas were shorter than men who grew up in rural areas, and that there were significant differences in the heights of men and boys from different socioeconomic backgrounds. At the beginning of the nineteenth century, 14-year-old boys attending the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst were nearly six inches taller than their counterparts in the Marine Society

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/6876106.pdf (bottom of page 101).

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by s1artibartfast on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @09:55AM (#25046616)
Really fascinating. It sounds like the interclass differences were greater then the variation within England over time.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by questionfor on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:09AM (#25044033)
Would the knight even have access to “bad” carbs / sugar in significant enough amounts to make them so fat that they’d be unfit for combat? It’s not like they can just get another carton of Pringles to finish off the dinner
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by dodobirdlord on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @09:31PM (#25065776)
Medieval stereotypes about fat people seem to indicate that men who were fat generally got fat from alcohol consumption.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by nradov on Monday November 09, 2020 @11:27PM (#25042806)
There certainly was a difference based on nutrition, but the English longbowmen still had to be quite strong. Those bows had heavy draw weights.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by dodobirdlord on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:42AM (#25044191)
The longbow armies of Wales and England were made up of yeomen, who were certainly well into the upper end of medieval society. There certainly weren't very many of them. There were only 5000-6000 at the Battle of Agincourt, and the loss of ~2500 of them 14 years later at the Battle of Patay crippled the ability of the English to field a substantial longbow army through to the end of the Hundred Years War.