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Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by fencepost on Monday November 09, 2020 @08:58PM (#25042116)
Mindset would likely have played a big part, and battle then vs battle now were very different things. A peasant could absolutely kill a knight but probably not in battle, and the opportunity to do so would be unlikely to arise because the knight would probably not be in a position to be ambushed. For most peasantry the very thought of going after a knight would also be almost unimaginable.

Seems like a not-unreasonable comparison today would be "could a civilian kill an armored vehicle?"

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by zrobotics on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:48PM (#25042649)
Huge thing is mindset- one thing the Total War series got extremely right was shock value and the ability to win battles by routing opponents. Getting charged with a horse would be terrifying (speaking from semi-experience, I've been charged by both bull moose and cattle). Nevermind the animal also having someone on top of it armed to the teeth, I can easily understand running away in terror.

From my amateur research, this is one of the reasons the Romans were so effective- they weren't always better armed than their opponents, but their culture and training promoted better cohesion. Whereas in the scenario of a medieval peasant facing a knight, even negating the shock value of being charged by mounted troops the knight likely just has far more experience in battle and is less likely to rout. Every peasant revolt I've read about seemed to end with the nobles riding the fleeing peasants down and stabbing them in the backs. Makes one reconsider the modern connotation of the word 'noble', although maybe it was a bit of a euphemism even back then. I know chivalry was much more of an ideal than a creed people actually followed.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by jacobolus on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @01:36AM (#25043338)
My impression is that chivalry was more about relations between nobles than anything to do with peasants.

Feudal lords have pretty much always taken whatever liberties they like with the local people: rape, theft, property destruction, murder, torture, kidnapping, ...

Medieval knights were little different than the thug soldiers of any modern criminal gang, except less checked by state power.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by questionfor on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:52AM (#25043956)
Barbara Tuchman’s “A Distant Mirror” portrays feudal wars as essentially raids to kill some of your neighbor’s peasants rather than your neighbor (who was most likely your relative)
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by speeder on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:10AM (#25045532)
Nobility was nobility because they did stuff that didn't get them (directly) paid.

Defense, research, some higher level medicine, engineering, etc...

They would get money from rents, but were expected to spend that money in weapons, equipment for their civilian profession if they had any (for example building a telescope) etc...

And of course it worked MOST of the time, but not ALL the time, sometimes you had people that became infamous, like that "vampire" lady that killed a ton of random people to bathe in their blood...

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by User23 on Monday November 09, 2020 @09:13PM (#25042218)
It's a solid analogy, because medieval armor was very effective against the weapons of the time[1].

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2z7t3k/plate...

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by HarryHirsch on Monday November 09, 2020 @09:39PM (#25042343)
Yet at Morgarten the Swiss massacred a Habsburg force. Armoured knights need an open battlefield to be effective, in crowded terrain a force made up of peasant fighters equipped with polearms is clearly superior.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by nl on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:36PM (#25042603)
Polearms were always very effective against mounted troops, if they were disciplined enough to use them together.

Even in the Napoleonic wars the best defence against cavalry was the square with soldiers using bayonets on their muskets.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by medium_burrito on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:17PM (#25042529)
Peut-etre fondue et racelette est la vraie potion magique?
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by lifeisstillgood on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:40AM (#25043898)
Maybe fondue and hard cheese is the true magic potion.

So even my bad French can get the translation - it what does it mean? :-)

It smells like something out of Asterix - but what is the quote from?

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by medium_burrito on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @12:55PM (#25048820)
Not a quote, just an Asterix reference- the savage tribes fighting off the (Holy) Roman Empire. Would be unseemly to make it in English.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by lifeisstillgood on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @04:11AM (#25056809)
Thank you:-)
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by hutzlibu on Monday November 09, 2020 @11:05PM (#25042729)
Still, with a dagger and skill, you could penetrate allmost all armor.

Not very helpful in 1 vs 1 for the peasant, but in the chaos of the battlefield, very possible. And like others have mentioned: with a polearm and skill, much better chances for the peaseant.

A disciplined force of polearm carriers could have (and did) defeat full armored knights. But there is the greates difference: a peasant usually was not in the position to receive military training at all, while the knights were trained for war since being childs.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by 8note on Monday November 09, 2020 @11:23PM (#25042795)
This sounds tautological? Why would people wear ineffective armour?
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by LanceH on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @01:09AM (#25043218)
Knights aren't gladiators. Full armor is effective in the context of a larger fight.

Individually, a knight on foot isn't catching anyone and can probably be poked until exhausted with any stick longer than whatever weapon he's carrying.

Mounted, someone in the ground has little to no chance at all if the horse is capable of moving. On clear ground, the horse is the weapon.

From the wiki page on Agincourt:

"Recent heavy rain made the battle field very muddy, proving very tiring to walk through in full plate armour. The French monk of St. Denis describes the French troops as "marching through the middle of the mud where they sank up to their knees. So they were already overcome with fatigue even before they advanced against the enemy". The deep, soft mud particularly favoured the English force because, once knocked to the ground, the heavily armoured French knights had a hard time getting back up to fight in the mêlée. Barker states that some knights, encumbered by their armour, actually drowned in their helmets.["

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by JshWright on Monday November 09, 2020 @09:33PM (#25042323)
> Seems like a not-unreasonable comparison today would be "could a civilian kill an armored vehicle?"

In that case, isn't the answer a definite yes?

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by hutzlibu on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:57PM (#25042689)
Only if the civilian has a rpg or IED and then he probably would not be a civilian anymore, but a specialized guerilla fighter, if he manages to take out a modern tank.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by tachyonbeam on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @12:10AM (#25042983)
OTOH you can also trap an armored vehicle into a hole or mud pit, and the people inside can't stay in there forever, there is also such a thing as a molotov cocktail.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by taneq on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @12:55AM (#25043154)
So a civilian can't kill an armoured vehicle, because if they can kill an armoured vehicle they aren't a civilian?
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by tshaddox on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @01:15AM (#25043240)
That’s not so crazy, is it? “Civilian” is used in the thought experiment to refer to an expected level of training, experience, and equipment. You wouldn’t reasonably expect a “civilian” in this context to have an RPG or an attack aircraft. The clear point of the thought experiment is “would a civilian be able to kill an armored vehicle with the level of training, experience, and equipment that would reasonably be expected of a civilian in this context?”
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by hamilyon2 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @06:16AM (#25044705)
In some countries, most civilians are former soldiers.

Knowing how to destroy an armored vehicle is not a common knowledge around where I live.

It is given for granted however that around the world people are creative, can learn new things, and generally could figure out how to make explosives.

And I guess they still qualify as civilians.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by egsmi on Monday November 09, 2020 @11:49PM (#25042892)
A shovel can be a surprisingly effective weapon if properly employed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_trench

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by dimitrios1 on Monday November 09, 2020 @09:50PM (#25042401)
Wouldn't a more apt comparison be someone armed with a 9mm pistol trying to take on a trained soldier with advanced anti-ballstic armor and plating, and an accurate rifle?
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by zrobotics on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:30PM (#25042581)
No, the comparison to an APC (armored personnel carrier) is apt- knights were armored enough to be nearly invulnerable to the weaponry a peasant would have access to. To compare to something modern, I'm sure enough street protestors would be able to disable an APC and kill the soldiers inside at least some of the time, but the soldiers in the APC could likely win the 40:9000 battle cited in the article. Remember that knights had the height of military technology, this was an age where any iron tool was still extremely valuable.

The only thing that would hamper modern soldiers is that from everything I have read medieval knights weren't possessed with any qualms about killing; life in general was much more violent than we experience now.

For more reading about this mindset, acoup.blog [0] has an excellent review of Bertrand de Born's work. What struck me is just how casual violence is treated, and that war is a treated as the expected normal condition. The peasantry definitely did not hold these views, but given that the nobility had a vast armament advantage and copious experience in killing I doubt many modern soldiers would be quite so callous. The only modern exception I can think of is child soldiers; but they have been subjected to abuse specifically to train them to be able to commit horrific acts. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think most soldiers in modern militaries would easily be able to slaughter their countrymen with quite the same abandon. This is speculation, but I suspect that the nobles were able to do this because they viewed the peasantry as semi-subhuman; see the American antebellum south for the types of atrocities that that mindset enables.

[0] https://acoup.blog/2020/04/16/collections-a-trip-through-ber...

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by jbay808 on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:47PM (#25042643)
Tiennanmen square would be a case in point. I believe that they brought in troops from other areas, because they were alienated enough from the citizens of the city, and the local garrison wouldn't have shot their own neighbours and families.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by johannes1234321 on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:09AM (#25044032)
I might be wrong, but I believe the only soldiers hurt were not on tanks, but foot soldiers after leaving the transport vehicles.

However this doesn't fit the "A peasant vs. a Knight" comaprison. A huge mass can also easily stop and defeat a knight.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by brazzy on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:32AM (#25043864)
> No, the comparison to an APC (armored personnel carrier) is apt- knights were armored enough to be nearly invulnerable to the weaponry a peasant would have access to.

No. A knight prone on the ground was very easy to kill very quickly - just stick a dagger through the visor. There is nothing comparable a civilian today can do to an APC.

Additionally, a single knight on a horse was not that hard to take down using relatively easily-available polearms, at least to a group of peasants. It doesn't scale down linearly - 40:9000 is a very different matter than 1:200, because a charge of 40 mounted knights is still inescapable death to the part of the enemy force they're charging at. A single knight would be much less terrifying even to a relatively group of peasants.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by C1sc0cat on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @05:10AM (#25044317)
Lob a molatoff cocktail from above and hit the engine intakes and you can get a Mobility kill.

Armour in built up areas is very risky with out infantry support and the APC's would not be just driving around with out having dismounts supporting them.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by zrobotics on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @08:19AM (#25045597)
This, or spray paint in windows and periscopes. Or, smokey fires in air inlets, crews carry gas masks but not hours of supplemental O2.

Modern armor isn't invulnerable, but as I suggested it isn't easy to take out and likely would achieve similar to 40:9000 or worse in confrontations with civilians. Thankfully armor rolling over civilians like that isn't common enough for me to pull actual statistics, so we have to guess at efficacy compared to knights fighting peasants.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by fencepost on Wednesday November 11, 2020 @01:25PM (#25061152)
And a knight would frequently be either backed by other knights or have men at arms as well - effectively dismounts.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by pjmlp on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:17AM (#25044063)
I guess that in the days that most jobs were either be being a soldier working for the local lord or a peasant in some random village had naturally a profound effect about life and death.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by bilbo0s on Monday November 09, 2020 @09:58PM (#25042439)
Knights were mounted. Oftentimes on a mount that itself was armored.

The armored vehicle analogy is apt.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by dimitrios1 on Monday November 09, 2020 @10:24PM (#25042555)
The mount was not as heavily armored, however, as modern armor vehicles are, and extremely vulnerable to pikemen (as many other commenters here have brought up: the landsknechts).

Back to the analogy, a peasant (in the modern sense) is unlikely going to be as able to obtain an anti-tank or armor piercing rounds as easily as a peasant (medieval sense) could pick up a pike.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by z3phyr on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @07:01AM (#25045006)
You need a disciplined pike wall that is so cohesive that it does not break! You dont get magical superpowers by just picking up a pike (like you wont become a good programmer by acquiring Borland Turbo C++). You need to train with your comrades.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by Schiendelman on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @12:20AM (#25043022)
A modern civilian doesn’t need to penetrate a tank, just get it stuck and light it on fire.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by fogihujy on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @03:27AM (#25043836)
The same applied to an armoured knight, but it's hard to trap a mounted warrior when you're on foot, just as it would be hard to get a tank stuck unless you know what you're doing.

I'm certain that more than one knight died locked inside a burning barn back in the days.

Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by questionfor on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @04:01AM (#25043998)
with an airsoft gun probably :)
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by ashtonkem on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @11:25AM (#25047726)
That's actually why knights armor was shiny. Remember that this is before chrome and stainless steel; shiny armor means that the armor is steel and maintained at high expense. The knowledge that you've got to go against someone wearing the best armor that the era can provide is going to be a huge blow to morale.
Re:Could a Peasant Defeat a Knight in Battle? by unnouinceput on Tuesday November 10, 2020 @01:06AM (#25043204)
*could a civilian kill an AI controlled armored vechicle" - something along the lines of T800 from Terminator movie.