As near as I can tell, Conservatism is deader than disco.
Here on HN if is almost funny to watch the different flavours of Trumpkin try to explain and justify themselves. You have the hard-core believers who only barely manage to keep the racism and xenophobia in check but can still throw out a dog whistle all the way to the ones who probably once thought of themselves as principled conservatives but who are reduced to simple projection when presented with facts ('no, we are not the ones driven by fear and anger, it is the left...') As unpleasant as the Trump experience has been, one of its few benefits has been to let the truly cretinous among us feel like they have permission to drop the mask and show us who they really are.
I was on the right most of my life and hated Trump. Yet he seemed to be the least worst for many single issue voters. Thankfully forums like this helped challenge my worldview enough to overcome the indoctrination of my youth. Now my entire perspective had flipped.
Everyone has the capacity to change. And that's much more likely to happen in a welcoming and curiosity friendly environment than an echo chamber.
The rabid cult of personality that popped up around him has been highly disturbing to watch. Decking everything out in shirts, hats, flying his name as a flag, painting your house with his name, covering your vehicle with flags. The non-stop rallies and campaigning even after he was elected.
And no, before someone trys to compare, it was not like that with Obama. People were excited about him but it did not become an everyday identity alongside a never-ending campaign.
I'm not saying the Democrats should, but they should try harder not to be painted as Socialists, if they are not. Or be socialist. I don't think the latter is a winning strategy in America, but at least they would lose for what they stand for, not for what they don't stand for.
If you ignore the last 4 years of analysis of what motivates Trump voters, why he's popular despite his personality issues and so on, then sure, you can "only" reach one conclusion. But it's the wrong one.
Still, it's great fun believing half of America is filled with racist hatred isn't it?
As near as I can tell, Conservatism is deader than disco.
It just drew basically level with the left despite Biden being far more presidential than Trump, and despite nearly the entire media and tech industry pulling every lever they could for Biden. That seems very far from dead.
Bill Clinton banged a very young intern in the Oval Office.
Bill Clinton lied, deceived, distorted, mislead - and then very 'point blank' lied about that directly to the Justice system, which is illegal.
Do you remember that? I do.
Bill Clinton has legitimate accusations of sexual assault hanging out there against him - just like Trump.
Why did Democrats (and others) 'forgive him'? And 'look the other way'?
How was the Democrat Brand not 'destroyed forever' by a 'Serial Abuser in Chief' in Office?
Democrats (and others) forgave him, because they think it was not so bad, that ultimately he was a good person, the act was ostensibly consensual, the Republicans were making to much of it - etc etc..
Some people simply don't see a 55 year married old man, banging a 22 year old intern in a prestigious office as hugely relevant. Others do.
I think most Donald Trump supporters believe that he 'Loves America' that he's a 'Business Genius' who just 'Speaks Plainly' and sometimes says aggressive things, but that it doesn't mean much.
I personally don't think any of those things are true, but it's not hard to see how people watching Fox News might be 'believers'.
To some people 'they are sending us their rapists' is like an inappropriate Chines accent or an off colour joke - inappropriate and little bit offensive, but not existentially so.
"I guess what a lot of us are struggling with is how anyone cannot see these truths for themselves in Trump. "
I don't think they do see 'Traditional Conservative' in him - I think they see mostly something else and that's my point.
If the GOP base wanted a 'Traditional Conservative' there are a dozen other, more obvious choices.
But it's all moot: Trump really isn't much of a 'Conservative' in any way, it's a 'Bully Nationalist' which unfortunately 1/2 of Republicans will vote for because they want to, the rest will vote reluctantly.
Both traditional Conservatism and 'American Socialism' (i.e. Centre Left) are not 'dead' - they are everywhere but it's that populism is having it's time, and supported in the press.
The Intersectionalist Reactionaries on the Left are very close to taking over the Democratic party, much as Trump 'barn stormed' the GOP.
I try to look past Trump's character flaws but they are so embarrassing and cringe inducing, and when you add the poor foreign policy, bungled COVID response and really very serious incitement of hatred, violence, and division he's created its really still quite perplexing but I appreciate your thoughts on it.
Not only is he a brutal narcissist who cares only about himself, he's willing to throw a democracy away for his vanity and power.
My articulation is more about 'mass perception' not so much what he actually is.
Clearly Bill Clinton is a good man, so are McCain, Romney, Obama, even Bush etc..
'Understanding Trump Support' is hard because what 'smart people see' is something completely different than what the plebes see. They think he's a genius, brilliant businessman, and probably don't realize how powerful his negative language about migrants etc. really is, they just don't understand what statesmanship actually is or how important that it is that he is a role model as well. I guess it's one of the more obvious problems of raw populism.
I kind of agree with you. However - maybe I am wrong - but you seem to equate these values with "conservatism" and believe other people think these are ideals of "entitlement". I don't think non-conservatives, myself included think that way or don't believe in these values. But feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you.
It seems you had a bad experience with what you felt were 'right wing' ideals but probably had little to do with that, as it would be a pretty intellectually shallow description of any kind of Conservatism (although understandable if one were to equate 'Trump' with 'Conservative' and I don't think many people would in the intellectual sense) and also oddly experientially 'upside down'.
Most 'young people' are progressive, people tend to get more conservative as they get older.
Cynically, one could say it's due to age and myopia, but more likely it has to do with responsibility, perspective, maturity and frankly living through decades and seeing how the world adapts.
Believing in the institutions of family (and monogamy as a commitment to that institution), the objective rule of law, moral obligation through duty of various kinds of community service, prudence, faith as an integral part of worldview, a sense of community that can possibly be expressed through nationalism, the notion that people must act responsibly to the extent they are able and assume responsibility for their actions - these are not ideals of 'entitlement' frankly.
Barack Obama, for example, is a 'Progressive Conservative', and he is in many ways in his own personal life a model 'cultural conservative': religious, church going, mild mannered, straight forward marriage, traditional formal education. He speaks formally and graciously, and is literally a living embodiment of many cultural historical artefacts. He didn't serve in the military but he very well could have, it's totally within his character.
He's not at all that far away from Mitt Romney for example.
Donald Trump is not a 'Conservative' or even 'right wing' really, he's just a jerk who found a 'following' in appealing to the worst qualities of 'bad right wing tropes'.
"In 1999, Trump described himself as "very pro-choice" and said "I believe in choice." (Wikipedia)
Donald Trump was a tough-guy New York 'kind of Democrat' most of his life. He always supported gay marriage. The Clintons were literally at his wedding to Melania.
He's a serial scammer, effectively a polygamist who marries woman purely on the basis of their attractiveness and then dumps them later, cavorts with prostitutes, lies, cheats, steals.
He changes his political views to suit the day, because they don't matter to him - he's just about being rich and popular.
He's managed to convince a lot of people that he is something that he is not, and that's sad, and it's brought out the worst in so many people, and that's what we are seeing today.
Have a look at this Charlie Rose interview with Senator Jeff Flake who's a much more traditional conservative, and FYI detests Donald Trump and 'fell on his sword' rather than go along with the toxicity. [1]
[1] https://charlierose.com/videos/30822