I think Trump repulsed so many people - regardless of policy it was an epoch for the voting population where either you say that behaviour is acceptable or not. Thankfully it was rejected but it’s concerning so many people seem to accept such repugnant behaviour if the general policies align with their own politics.

I mistakenly thought the line was way further back than it actually is and I just wonder where the line actually is. Trump wasn’t the line, the population could stomach worse.

Either way, I think voting for Biden on the “not Trump” basis is fine, and ultimately the blame for the what some voters see as an empty dichotomy lies flat at the feet of the short sightedness of the Republican Party.

The thing that those of us outside the US find interesting is that you don’t have a left and a right party. You have a just right of center party and a far right party. Pick any Democrat (with a few exceptions) and pop them in another countries left party (Uk labour for instance) and they would be sent over the aisle with jeers.

My assumption is that the Cold War and fear of anything vaguely “commie” pushed the US that way as the gov in the 50s and 60s seems (from anecdotes) to have been very progressive.

I would love to see what would happen if you had single transferable vote (or similar) that picked the single issue voters away from the GOP. You might find a situation where the dems become everyone’s second choice because they are firmly in the Center and it would show just how unprogressive they really are (or at least how they appear to be to an international audience)

It still blows my brain that there isn’t wide spread single payer/NHS style health care in the richest country in the world.

And don’t get us started on gun control, I’ve travelled to dozens of countries around the world and nowhere have I felt less safe than SF/Buffalo/NY/Miami/Jackson.

> It still blows my brain that there isn’t wide spread single payer/NHS style health care in the richest country in the world.

And the odds are good it won't ever happen. It is deeply ingrained in the culture of this country that the gov't is bad, and private corporations are good. So we willingly accept death panels as long as it's some faceless insurance company, because hey, it's not the gov't.

Nevermind that we arguably have more control over the gov't than we do a faceless corporation. Short of changing jobs, I don't really have any leverage over my insurance provider.

The frustration I have is that some conservatives won't even agree to that framing. It wasn't they were choosing policy over character, it's that they see nothing wrong with his character. I've had many arguments w/ conservative friends because they think he's just been treated unfairly or "everyone has faults", then point to character flaws of other candidates. I mean, I understand it, but just a gross false equivalency. In the end it's their opinion and mine.