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A comment on Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-hospitalised individuals. Parent comment

Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by acqq on Monday November 02, 2020 @09:12AM (#24968272)
No honest scientist would say what you wrote as your “nutshell.” Specifically, T cell response is not equivalent at all to “you can’t catch it.” Still all scenarios are possible: 1) you can still catch it, and still get more sick 2) you can catch it, and be less sick 3) you can be “sterilizingly immune” meaning that you won’t get sick and won’t be able to transmit to somebody else.

But which of those will be by majority the study just didn’t investigate.

In immunology no answer is “yes” or “no” but the range. The range is different between different people, and we can conclude what the typical ranges are, if there’s enough data collected. But the ranges are still unknown at the moment.

The same reason (a need to find the ranges) is why you can’t make a vaccine candidate and be sure how it will work, unless you run big and long enough trials. And that’s why that takes time.

Here’s what this study figured out, quoting from the article: “The size of T cell response differed between individuals, being considerably (50%) higher in people who had experienced symptomatic disease at the time of infection six months previously. Further research will be needed to determine the significance of this finding.”

As you see, again some range, but also not concluding what you claim.

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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by Robotbeat on Monday November 02, 2020 @09:22AM (#24968358)
We have been running a "natural" trial on millions of people. From that, we can already tell that reinfection, although possible, is very rare.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by Symmetry on Monday November 02, 2020 @09:42AM (#24968594)
I'm not sure we can rule out the idea that reinfection after 6 months is common but almost always asymptomatic in people with healthy immune systems. There was that British common cold coronavirus challenge trial where most subjects could be reinfected after 1 year, confirmed by PCR, but none of them developed symptoms.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by acqq on Monday November 02, 2020 @09:47AM (#24968650)
Which could mean that such asymptomatic people could still infect somebody vulnerable, if they shed enough virus at some point of their reinfection.

The open question is, again, what will be the percentage of such cases.

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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by SomeoneFromCA on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @05:16PM (#24984645)
Unfortunately there are several taboos on many forums, regarding discussion Covid. For ex.: Covid reinfections, lab origins of covid etc.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by acqq on Thursday November 05, 2020 @05:58AM (#24997210)
SARS-CoV-2 has not been created in the lab. The genome looks completely different than such.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by SomeoneFromCA on Saturday November 07, 2020 @10:15AM (#25015506)
Yeah, exactly what I was talking about. There is no way to say this just by looking at the genome, all you can do is to say that is not very probable, and that would still be a dubious claim. There is a plenty of gnome manipulations that leave no trace. Having said that, lab origin does not neccesarily mean genetic manipulation. Serial passage through animals (say, minks) will leave no trace of genetic engineering, but may make the virus contagius to humans (minks and humans have similar ACE2 receptor). Or just poorly handled sample from the would do.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by acqq on Monday November 09, 2020 @04:25AM (#25032966)
That are all bogus claims. Biology doesn’t work how somebody not in the field in his simplistic theory think it does. The claims as written show a complete distance from the field and the necessary understanding needed to be able to even understand how wrong the claims are. Theoretically anything can be synthesized, practically, nobody would ever be even near to synthesize what we actually observe. Human controlled “passage through animals” would need many decades to produce the patterns. Totally wrong claims based on bad understanding of how that all works.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by anoncake on Friday November 06, 2020 @03:29AM (#25006018)
How do you identify a lab-created virus?
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by SomeoneFromCA on Saturday November 07, 2020 @10:16AM (#25015517)
Of course there is no way. I think people need to start relaxing. Trump has lost, so stop being afraid talking about the lab origins of Covid.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by macintux on Monday November 02, 2020 @09:35AM (#24968511)
Can we really? Infection itself is still somewhat uncommon, thanks to the global reaction to the pandemic.

I don't doubt that reinfection will be rare, at least over the span of a few months, but to my mind that would seem unproven given how hard we're (generally) working to keep people from being infected in the first place.

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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by krona on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:08AM (#24968858)
In many countries, healthcare workers are exposed (to varying degrees) on a daily basis.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by rusk on Monday November 02, 2020 @03:08PM (#24972580)
Yes ... and they are getting reinfected. The fatality rate among medics is quite high relative to general population
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by krona on Wednesday November 04, 2020 @03:38PM (#24992825)
The fatality rate among medics is quite high relative to general population

'Quite high' could mean anything, but if you're implying 'higher than' then that isn't supported by the statistics I've seen in a dozen countries.

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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by Symmetry on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:24AM (#24969047)
Good point. I'd hope they'd receive regular testing as well.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by kaitai on Monday November 02, 2020 @10:58AM (#24969490)
Unfortunately, your hope is unfounded. My spouse is a physician and when coughing (acute bronchitis) could not get a test without job consequences (being forced to take 10 days off and reschedule all patients regardless of the outcome of the test). There has been an exposure in a neighboring ward through a fellow healthcare worker and tests are not being made available broadly. Remember, in the US healthcare workers generally have to go through insurance to get approved for tests, etc., even though they work in healthcare -- they're not at this time provided anything more than the general public in terms of diagnostics. (At least spouse gets free masks at work, haha...)
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by SomeoneFromCA on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @05:14PM (#24984624)
Do you know how academic, narrow and unpractically stiff are criteria for a proof of reinfection? You need to have the viral genome sequenced TWO times, and both times it must be a slightly DIFFERENT virus. In that context "very rare" is not a useful term.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by kaitai on Monday November 02, 2020 @11:00AM (#24969512)
There is a temporal component here. As an ancestor commenter said, "you can't catch it again right away" (emphasis added). We do not know (because we cannot know) if reinfection is possible after two years, for instance, because we have not had the virus for two years yet.
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by rusk on Monday November 02, 2020 @03:09PM (#24972605)
Don’t forget there are lifestyle factors that can effect your immune response. You’ll typically fight off a cold except for that one time when it catches you tired, or stressed ...
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Re:Cellular immunity to SARS-CoV2 found at 6 months in non-h... by acqq on Monday November 02, 2020 @09:29AM (#24968426)
> From that, we can already tell that reinfection, although possible, is very rare.

No. From the current papers, we just know that the reinfection where people have had their virus sequenced in both first and second infection is very rare.

The problem is technological. Up to now there are around 50 million confirmed cases in the world but probably less than 100 thousand sequencings performed, and only a few sequencings by those who had strong enough symptoms twice and had the chance to have sequencing twice.

Without sequencing one just can’t prove that some case is an actual reinfection. All other cases are just “possible” (i.e. unprovable) reinfections and nobody can claim anything worthy of a scientific paper about them.

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