News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by egypturnash on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:03AM (#24951996)
Has anyone actually found a use for cryptocurrency and/or the blockchain yet that is not "burn a shit-ton of power on arguing over units of cryptocurrency are worth anything"?
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by petertodd on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:17AM (#24952102)
One of the most interesting Bitcoin meetups I've ever been to was in Nairobi, Kenya, where I met a bunch of farmers who had modern, large scale, industrial operations in Kenya and other african countries. They were using Bitcoin to buy supplies like fertilizer and farm equipment, as well as sell their crops, evading border controls in the process. It was a lot safer and less prone to confiscation than carrying around a bunch of USD cash.

Another example is how many porn sites and filesharing sites are also accepting Bitcoin. Eg ManyVids allows you to pay with Bitcoin via Lighting, which transfers the BTC almost instantly for quite low fees. There's obvious privacy advantages to that over credit card payments.

A non-monetary use-case is my OpenTimestamps protocol, which I was able to recently use to prove a specific DKIM key was used in the past: https://twitter.com/peterktodd/status/1322270551898030082

Though that use-case really just piggy-backs on the financial use-cases - if not for them OpenTimestamps in its current form would not be secure.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by kylebenzle on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:37AM (#24952273)
Bitcoin Cash is what we call Bitcoin now. Lighting is obvious vaporware nonsense that solves only the problem of how to keep Blockstream in control of the GitHub repo they (Adam Back and Greg Maxwell) hijacked years ago.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by petertodd on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:44AM (#24952340)
If you want to try Lightning out - and see for yourself whether or not it is vaporware - the easiest way to do that is to get a mobile Lightning wallet such as Eclair (fairly easy) or BlueWallet (easiest) from your appstore. As I mentioned, ManyVids accepts Lightning payments for a real product, as does https://www.bitrefill.com/ (phone refills, gift cards, etc). For testing with smaller amounts, https://yalls.org/ will let you buy access to blog posts for trivial amounts of money (eg one cent).
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by martinko on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:52AM (#24952431)
> Bitcoin Cash is what we call Bitcoin now

Really? The market begs to differ.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by nighthawk24 on Sunday November 01, 2020 @01:40AM (#24957634)
BTC limitation of SegWit/LN stole the Bitcoin brand name and the decade long Plan-B narrative from BCH's block upgrade, Schnorr signature, 0-conf(without Replace-By-Fee).

Bitcoin Cash market cap of ~$4.8B is good enough for it to be used as P2P Electronic Cash System that Bitcoin was built for.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by dylkil on Saturday October 31, 2020 @06:52PM (#24955856)
bitcoin cash is the real bitcoin, but ethereum is gonna take the throne
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by yellow_postit on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:07AM (#24952024)
Rediscovering why some financial regulation makes sense come to mind. A petri dish for relearning.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by thebean11 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:09AM (#24952039)
Transferring money across borders, gambling, buying drugs are the main three that come to mind.

edit: missed financial speculation

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by fidelramos on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:49AM (#24952397)
Censorship-resistant payments. Protection against central banks inflation. Protection against taxation. Carrying undetectable wealth without a weight.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by dudus on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:18AM (#24952117)
I was going to say drugs, ransom, money laundering and other illegal activities are the main use cases for crypto
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by seibelj on Saturday October 31, 2020 @02:15PM (#24953831)
They also all happened before crypto. But no one spoke about the evils of fiat currency then.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by raziel2701 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @05:49PM (#24955464)
What do I, a regular Joe not interested in buying illegal things, gain from using bitcoin? What's the proposition? Where's the value?
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by seibelj on Saturday October 31, 2020 @06:32PM (#24955746)
The US government has an absurd amount of debt but neither major party cares and both have plans to explode it even further. As the global reserve currency the US has the ability to debase the value of it far more than any other country before serious pain occurs. But if you want a hedge against runaway inflation, plus the chance bitcoin replaces or at least eats some of the market share of gold, making bitcoin a small percentage of your retirement portfolio makes sense. It may wind up being an outsized portion of your wealth when you retire.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by unnouinceput on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:14AM (#24952082)
https://dailyhodl.com/2020/09/28/big-bitcoin-holder-transfer...

Quote from article: "The anonymous whale sent 15,987 Bitcoin worth $166 million, paying a fee of $23.46"

Tell me, what bank in the world would charge only $23.46 for transferring $166 M?

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by JumpCrisscross on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:39AM (#24952291)
> what bank in the world would charge only $23.46 for transferring $166 M?

I have never paid for a wire. I’ve also overseen multibillion-dollar wires for which there were zero transfer fees.

If you send and receive wires, get a bank account that doesn’t charge for them. (This is almost every account at e.g. Fidelity or First Republic.) Consumer accounts usually optimise for a different basket of needs than large instantaneous transfers. If that is something you care about, there are a myriad of options superior to Bitcoin.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by UncleDiaz12 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @12:10PM (#24952599)
Are you serious?

I have sent multiple international wires over the years and money always goes missing either from the sending/receiving fees, or the intermediary bank in New York takes a small cut.

Maybe if you have an account with billions of $$$ then you get a special deal, but us normies have to pay.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by daniel-cussen on Saturday October 31, 2020 @12:59PM (#24953047)
Those wires are usually expensive because in many places you have to move tangible money around as a result. In Chile in the 2010's Banco de Chile and its counterparties (including Banco BICE) had vaults of their own in their counterparty's complex just so they could square up all the money that moved between their customers on account of instant transfers.

Sure, when Alice pays Bob, Bob pays Charlie, and Charlie pays Alice a small amount of money a lot of it cancels out. But not all, and over millions of transactions one bank can end up owing another a lot of money. You have to cash out at some point, as banks hate trusting people with money for no interest. So banks then resort to armored vehicles full of cash and gold bars so they can square up.

When they're moving money they balance the cost of additional security against the risk of loss and that's what gets reflected in the bill for the bank wire.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by pingec on Saturday October 31, 2020 @04:31PM (#24954962)
Please tell me how to send a 10k USD from US bank account to EU bank account for $23.46 or less. Transferwise is one of the cheapest and it costs $50 USD in fees.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by JumpCrisscross on Saturday October 31, 2020 @04:37PM (#24955003)
> tell me how to send a 10k USD from US bank account to EU bank account for $23.46 or less

Sent a few thousand dollars from my Fidelity account to a Frankfurt-based friend’s UBS account last week. Zero fees. Note that I sent, and they received U.S. dollars. I believe they incurred about a dollar of slippage in the FX conversion to Euros.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by Daniel_sk on Saturday October 31, 2020 @06:23PM (#24955698)
I transfered a few milions within EU banks with zero fees. As long as it’s in EUR and you use IBAN...
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by anonymousab on Saturday October 31, 2020 @04:57PM (#24955132)
Buy having an account where that's one of the options. This may not be the default type of account advertised by your bank to the average person.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by dudus on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:22AM (#24952142)
The anonymous whale sent from one wallet to another just to rotate their address? Or have they actually sent this money to someone else? Was this money acquired legally? Is it being used for illegal activity? A Bank would have to audit it at the very least, so there's value for the people at having banks manage that transfer rather than let them do it anonymously.

Also for someone with $166M cost of a large transfer seem negligible even if it was in the 100s of thousands. Unless they need to move it all the time continuously, in which case I'd ask, why do they need that?

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by UncleDiaz12 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @12:16PM (#24952650)
Anti-Money Laundering laws only catch 0.5% of illicit funds, yet cost 100x the money recovered.

https://www.ledgerinsights.com/anti-money-laundering-has-les...

Also, the $10K threshold for additional AML scrutiny has been the same amount for nearly 50 years. It should be close to $50k in today's dollars due to inflation.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by nmlnn on Saturday October 31, 2020 @04:28PM (#24954936)
In 1970 when these AML thresholds were set a dollar was tied to gold at $35/oz. So based on the gold price today it's actually:

$10,000 (1970) = $10,000 x 1880/35 = ~$537,000 (2020)

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by pavlov on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:25AM (#24952170)
Wire transfer fees are not commissions, so they don’t depend on the amount — unless currency exchange is involved.

Large transfers of hundreds of millions USD happen between institutions all the time.

I don’t think this is interesting or unique, or a convincing example of why Bitcoin is worth the enormous environmental impact.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by projektfu on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:24AM (#24952154)
Assuming you had $166m in one account at your bank, a wire transfer would be $20-35 depending.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by d4c on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:16AM (#24952098)
Decentralized finance, which includes lending, asset management, automated market making and fund-raising via tokens. See https://defipulse.com/ for recent growth.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by joosters on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:58AM (#24952481)
Defi is just the last incarnation of the blockchain-related 'get rich quick' scams, like the ICOs before it. It's proponents think that somehow it generates amazing returns out of nothing. In reality, insiders and cheats are profiting from the gullible. (again, just like ICOs)
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by ahallock on Saturday October 31, 2020 @07:22PM (#24956063)
It's easier to call everything a scam than actually spend time to learn. There are tons of Youtube channels, Twitter accounts, Reddit pages, Discord/Telegram groups, etc. with all the information. It's hardly "insider" knowledge. Are there scams and pump & dumps? Sure. But if you manage your capital, a few rug pulls aren't going to ruin you.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by nomad543 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:22AM (#24952137)
Anything you can do with fiat currencies, you can do with crypto. It's going to be huge.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by vikramkr on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:26AM (#24952179)
Sure, people have been saying that for a while now and it hasn't materialized. What exactly is going to change that is going to make crypto able to be used like fiat currency? What exactly is in the works thats going to make that happen? Because it very obviously cannot be used to replace fiat currency currently. I mean, a lot of people are only holding cryptocurrencies because they think the value of the coin in US dollars is going to go up. "This currency will suffer from really bad deflation" is a pretty bad selling point for a new currency! So whats going to change?
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by gamblor956 on Saturday October 31, 2020 @01:57PM (#24953678)
Actually, there are quite a few things you can't do with crypto that are trivial with fiat, like entering into transactions without power or internet, or paying your taxes.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by jiggytom on Saturday October 31, 2020 @12:09PM (#24952585)
There's also odysee.com and lbry.tv, both powered by a Bitcoin like network and P2P tech that enables a YouTube alternative.

Works today, lots of great content, earn crypto while using too.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by vaccinator on Saturday October 31, 2020 @12:04PM (#24952548)
you don't have to burn a shit ton of power, you can "pre-mine" your "currency" (many did)
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by kylebenzle on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:36AM (#24952255)
And there is the typical HN unfounded hate for Bitcoin. I hope you never change HN.
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by emptysongglass on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:23AM (#24952150)
There's tons of uses: you can fractionally hold real estate, Estonia uses a blockchain to ensure only citizens can grant access to their data siloes to government entities and that that data remains untampered, you can track lineage of art pieces (who owned when), there are healthcare applications, and encrypted messengers like Jami and Status leveraging.

You're a few years late on the let's-hate-blockchain trend. Time to update your optics.

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by joosters on Saturday October 31, 2020 @12:01PM (#24952506)
Real estate (and 'real' anything) on the blockchain is fatally flawed. What happens when the blockchain forks? Which fork holds the real estate, and which fork holds nothing? Or do the blockchain proponents think that the real estate will magically fork into two just like their money?
Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by yowlingcat on Saturday October 31, 2020 @12:30PM (#24952767)
Just to play a bit of a devil's advocate here, a lot of the same questions have "bedeviled" (and I mean that a little sarcastically) securities lawyers in corporate restructuring cases over the last century. And by "bedeviled" I mean not really. It's a bit of a leaky analogy that you really have to squint at to make work, but the concepts of subordination for bonds and liquidation preference for equities can roughly be analogized how to how forks achieve consensus and resolve disputes. Which is to say, the fork that the network operators (even if that's a distributed, automated consensus) agree to use is almost tautologically is the one that wins. Just like in real life with courts.

That's not to say your comment doesn't have some merit -- I think a lot of blockchain proponents are also of the type to believe that manual edge case dispute resolution (otherwise known as "the law") can be completely removed from blockchain use cases. And of course that is a bit farfetched. But is that a bad goal to strive for? I don't know, I think it would be kind of neat to have some sort of algorithmic countervailing force balancing against an otherwise unstoppable proliferation of bureaucracy, corruption and regulatory capture that I see almost everywhere in the world. Is that such a bad thing?

Re:What Bitcoin’s White Paper Got Right, Wrong and What We S... by kylebenzle on Saturday October 31, 2020 @11:40AM (#24952297)
Apparently HN still hates Bitcoin, you're comment will be removed in 3, 2, 1...