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Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by nemo44x on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:44PM (#24938594)
Is it regarded as a failure? Teachers in public schools work part time for 25 years and get a scaling pension they “negotiated” with the politicians their union dues elected. I’d call them fantastic winners. Grifters? Sure. But certainly not losers.
Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by havelhovel on Friday October 30, 2020 @12:13AM (#24939085)
My parents, both with master’s degrees, worked at least eight hours every day teaching, grading assignments, and then preparing for the following day. I would guess about ten hours on average, seeing as I was mostly left alone as a child while my parents worked over the kitchen table. Yes, they don’t teach during the summer. Their pay reflects that. I won’t even touch on personal expenditures for supplies. Grifters?! My lord. Teachers are criminally underpaid, highly educated adults who shape society’s future while fighting its current failures. All while being inexplicably hated and ridiculed by students, parents, and I guess HN.

No need to take my word for it: https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/15/us/teacher-pay-myth-misconcep...

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by SamReidHughes on Friday October 30, 2020 @04:01AM (#24940071)
The article cites the BLS for other professions so why not take the BLS's word for teachers, too?

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by nemo44x on Friday October 30, 2020 @08:15AM (#24941414)
> ...shape society’s future while fighting its current failures. All while being inexplicably hated and ridiculed by students, parents, and I guess HN.

I’m not sure how to interpret this. Are you saying they indoctrinate kids? Do they exist to teach kids __how__ to think or __what__ to think?

Which current failures are they fighting?

As to my previous comment about “grifters”, I’ll admit that was too cynical and over the top. I don’t think individual teachers are. However, their unions are pretty close.

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by michaelt on Friday October 30, 2020 @09:11AM (#24941823)
> Which current failures are they fighting?

Depending on the teacher and school, everything from kids coming to school hungry or without supplies to obesity to discipline problems to cheating to bullying/cyberbullying to child abuse to uninvolved parents to mental health problems to anxiety to drugs to deficiencies in the curriculum to achievement gaps between genders, classes and races to lack of good role models to gang culture.

That's not to say every teacher works to address all those things at once - at some schools they might not contend with any at all! But I've seen people call on the education system to do almost everything you'd otherwise expect parents to do.

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by nemo44x on Friday October 30, 2020 @11:28AM (#24943242)
So it's the system that is failing, not the teachers...

Public schools are a part of the system and the system has only continued to grow larger and larger over the last 75+ years. So what is the solution, to make the system even larger? More of the same failed therapeutic?

More and more "solutions" have been added to an outdated school system and has continued to show worse and worse results. This is quantitatively proven. Yet, we continue to tinker and politicize public schooling. To your point, we've decided to inject more and more social issues into schools, expanding scope of all things except effective learning.

And the teachers unions are a huge part of this. They support unaccountable teachers, pay for time and not for merit, and combined with the progressive wing of the country they are allied with countless special interests which are all too eager to continue to have their interests blended into the curriculum. Because no time to make a customer for life then when they're young.

So yes, the system is failing and the solution has continued to be "Add more system". We spend more and more every year and get worse and worse results. We should dissolve the public school system (government should not be in this business at all) and grant each student a sum of money that parents can use to place kids in private schools of their choice that suit their child's abilities and the parents aspirations.

This is a good breakdown on how some teachers are in fact a big part of the problem with educating kids:

https://fee.org/articles/the-failure-of-american-public-educ...

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by rcxdude on Friday October 30, 2020 @10:59AM (#24942913)
"part-time" is not something I would ever describe teaching as. All the teachers I've seen take huge amounts of work home with them, even on vacation. There may be a slight lull in the summer but it's filled with training, learning changes in the curriculum, etc. It's not uncommon for teachers to pay for classroom materials out of pocket because the schools are unable or unwilling to pay for them (this would be utterly ridiculous in many other industries). Teaching is something you go into because you enjoy it or it satisfies you on some level and you can put up with ridiculous workloads, not because it pays well.
Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by dragonwriter on Thursday October 29, 2020 @10:50PM (#24938625)
> Teachers in public schools work part time

Typically full-time and usually year round, though some work seasonally for about 3/4 year (but still full-time), with commensurately reduced annual pay.

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Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by dragonwriter on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:12PM (#24938749)
> You are simply full of it

Except your calculations support exactly what I said.

> It’s 3 months off.

Yes, it's typically 3 months off if they don't work summer session in a traditional schedule.

Which most who are able to (there are reduced available positions) do.

Hence, the full-time but, for some, 3/4-year seasonal full-time that I stated.

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by nemo44x on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:24PM (#24938815)
They get paid for that extra time if they choose to work it. Otherwise a teacher works 30 hours a week when normalized to a 48 hour work year. This is part-time work.

But they get golden health care, pension, and early retirement. Good for them. This is why teachers aren’t suckers as the OP suggested. They’re in on a great scam. Good for them.

The sucker working retail could only dream.

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by dragonwriter on Thursday October 29, 2020 @11:43PM (#24938927)
> Otherwise a teacher works 30 hours a week when normalized to a 48 hour work year. This is part-time work.

No, it's full-time seasonal work.

> The sucker working retail could only dream.

Retail generally doesn't require a four-year degree, plus a post-graduate credential as a basic qualification. Compared to professions that do, schoolteachers pay and benefits are between unremarkable and substandard.

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by nemo44x on Friday October 30, 2020 @08:22AM (#24941466)
Let’s just forget about their sweet pensions and lifelong benefits package.

They have public sector unions that negotiate their compensation. I don’t think it’s teachers that are being bullied here.

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by dragonwriter on Friday October 30, 2020 @09:50AM (#24942147)
> Let’s just forget about their sweet pensions and lifelong benefits package.

Let's not; considering it doesn't make their total pay and benefita particularly good for the entry requirements, though it makes it somewhat less bad, leaving them only 11.1 percent behind comparable professions instead of 18.7 percent considering pay alone, as of 2017.

https://www.epi.org/publication/teacher-pay-gap-2018/

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by tehwebguy on Friday October 30, 2020 @09:32AM (#24941993)
> Let’s just forget about their sweet pensions and lifelong benefits package.

Many already have, as the local and state governments that control these pensions and benefits are constantly changing.

Re:Glass viscosity calculations debunk the myth of flow in m... by michaelmrose on Friday October 30, 2020 @03:32AM (#24939947)
A typical English teacher who works 2200 hours whereas a full time worker with 2 weeks paid vacation works 2000.

https://www.weareteachers.com/teacher-overtime/