You make a lot of interesting points, thanks. You're quite right, reality doesn't conform to ideal principles, they are only things we can aspire towards but rarely achieve, and then in only limited areas.

>> If you have a legitimate mandate from the electorate, you can get an awful lot done. > >You can get a lot done without the mandate from the electorate.

Sure, but then you're into either using force or deception.

>Actually, governments "with popular mandates" are what you want to really worry about. ...

Genocides and mass murders can be committed by governments with popular mandates sure, there are many examples, but many of the more grievous examples are from totalitarian states. Soviet Russia, Communist China under Mao, Cambodia. I don't think democracy makes it more likely.

Yes popular mandates can be gained through under hand means, sure. We have to be careful, but I think your analogy to sexual consent is very apt. Even consensual relationships can turn out to be based on deception or abusive psychological domination. Consent isn't a simple moral binary issue, thanks.