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Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by phkahler on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:42AM (#24818651)
Stop complaining about Google and start using Firefox. Simple. If it's not simple and you find yourself tied to Chrome then you dug your own hole. This type of thing has been going on a long time.
Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by whoknew1122 on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:27PM (#24818983)
You can use Firefox (or Brave) and still point out Google's privacy violations and self-dealing. These positions aren't mutually exclusive, and are more productive than 'stfu n git gud. git f1r3f0x.'

1.) Not everyone is going stop using Chrome. It's better to let Chrome users know what they're getting into.

2.) Pointing out Chrome's privacy issues gives an extra push to stop using it. This post may be just the push someone needs to overcome the inertia built by using the same program for years.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by d0gbread on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:07PM (#24818855)
Since I see some agreeing comments, I'll throw out a bit about why I disagree.

Like shopping on Amazon, or buying from China, I'm going to do what's best for me as an individual. It's government's job to step in and tweak the playing field to keep it competitive, and I'll happily vote to regulate the very things that serve me today, whether that's breaking businesses up, preventing mergers in the first place, having businesses pay for their externalities, etc.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by dmitryminkovsky on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:17PM (#24818916)
If these things are good for you as an individual (cheap, convenient), why would you want the government to step in and mess them up?
Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by 2T1Qka0rEiPr on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:23PM (#24818954)
I would guess the OP is making the argument that as a single-mover he wouldn't see much benefit. But where institutions and governments intervene, they can encourage competition, and so improve the state of the lesser player, in addition to potentially crippling that of the dominant one.

An example to which I could relate in terms of this line of thinking is plane vs. train travel. Were subsidies to flow towards the train rather than the plane, it would make it more affordable for me to the environmentally better thing. However, as things stand, I frequently find it hard individually to justify the often much higher cost AND longer duration of the train over the plane.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by phkahler on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:43PM (#24819659)
>> If these things are good for you as an individual (cheap, convenient), why would you want the government to step in and mess them up?

I can't speak for that commentor but from what I've seen most people who say things like that just dont want to take any responsibility. The attitude is: I do what I want today based on my immediate wants. Its maximum freedom! But I want the government to protect me from others bad behavior. And if they do try to regulate or break up a company that's giving me what I want, imma complain about it because it may interfere with my choice.

It's a combination of narcissism and lack of personal responsibility.

Edit: and that last part sounded really shitty. Maybe I need to change who I hang around so I see less of that.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by BeeOnRope on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:03PM (#24819275)
Game theory: see prisoners dilemma, tragedy of the commons etc.

You might think you'll be better off of the tax rate went up by 5% (say) but you'd certainly be worse off of you alone started paying 5% more.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by quadrangle on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:52PM (#24819186)
This question cuts right to the heart of individualist/libertarian ideology.

All sorts of ramifications of the current system are awful for me as an individual. I don't want pollution, slavery, and all sorts of other problems, some of which directly affect me. But within the existing system, it might be my best individual choice to still buy a product that has those problems in its production because the alternatives available give me a worse experience.

The whole point of government intervention is to change the situation so that we don't have this dilemma.

I don't want the externalized costs of certain cheap conveniences! But if everyone else keeps doing that and I refuse to go that way individually, I still get the externalized costs anyway! I don't HAVE an individual choice that will eliminate those costs. If I did, I actually WOULD choose that over the cheap conveniences.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by pessimizer on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:56PM (#24819755)
The problem with this sort of liberal belief in the functionality of the current iteration of representative democracy is that pollution, slavery, and all sorts of other problems are not awful for you as an individual if they give you slightly more comfort than the alternatives. If you're not willing to be inconvenienced in any way[$], your material actions are going to be to support polluters and slavers. Polluters and slavers will then be put into the position to determine the government.

Liberal ideology requires a god-blessed sovereign that lives outside of the system and has no motivation other than the common good for his subjects - whether that's a king, a magical computer that makes provably optimal inhuman (i.e. objective) decisions, or an army of biracial, bisexual, ungendered university professors who were in the top 2% of their class in elite colleges. There is no government, and no means of governance, that lives outside of the human struggle for power. Governance is the wielding of power.

You can't just wait for power to be placed in the hands of the just. The just are the ones who are willing to forgo power for the sake of the good. There will never be a magic button that you can push to make everybody stop benefiting from the bad thing at the same time. The kind of government intervention you're asking for is divine.

You have to take a risk, to be weak on purpose. Hobbes said it best in Leviathan: you have to make a "covenant" with the world, a contract that you will follow for the sake of others whether or not others follow it. An oath that obligates you and no one else, with the hope that others will be inspired by your vision for the world and live the oath themselves. The combination of you and those others creates power.

[$] Everybody is willing to be inconvenienced in some way for some value, everyone has some value that when violated will effect their personal comfort more negatively than some marginal degree of convenience will improve it.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by quadrangle on Sunday October 25, 2020 @12:38AM (#24883877)
That's all insightful and interesting stuff, but it doesn't change the fact that collective-action is distinct from just the aggregate of individual-action.

Regardless of all these other things, there are also situations in which the collective-action any individual might choose (even for selfish reasons!!) if they had the magic button is not the action they would choose as an individual without the coordination of others.

So, however it is accomplished, in whatever political system, there are cases where merely enabling a group of people to act in coordination allows them all to pursue their individual interests more effectively.

The core point being: you cannot merely judge that people who refuse to unilaterally follow a contract that others reject means that those people do not support the contract.

Put another way: Kant's categorical imperative is a nice concept, but it's delusional to actually think it represents reality rather than just a mental model.

If I self-sacrifice without collective action, I might very well reduce my own capacity for other positive actions and convince others by my example that self-sacrifice is counterproductive.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by pfortuny on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:09PM (#24818866)
Well “best” is defined as an outcome of a value order.
Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by jimueller on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:59AM (#24818795)
Agreed, good to call them out, if this is intentional, but about the only way to stop this stuff is to stop using their browser.

I switched back to Firefox a few years ago. I know they've had their issues recently but still probably the least evil browser.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by qzx_pierri on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:24PM (#24818963)
Firefox has been great for me lately. I use iOS, so I can have password synced cross platform, and I honestly feel like Firefox performs better than Chrome on my PC. Chrome eats up RAM, and it runs in the background unless you manually configure it otherwise.

I won't try to sell anyone on it, but it's awesome. Politics and Mozilla's laughable behavior aside, it's still a damn good browser.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by cvrjk on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:46PM (#24819133)
I am sorry, but that hasn't been my experience at all. Both on Windows and Android. I've noticed that Firefox eats up far more memory than chrome with way lesser open tabs on both the platforms. I've had tabs die on me multiple times that I simply could not recover. At this point I am very conscious when I am using Firefox because I don't want too many open tabs or leave them open for too long.

I'd love to use Firefox and ditch Chrome completely, but I don't think its there yet.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by bretpiatt on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:02PM (#24819271)
I'm down to using Chrome for Google Properties that I use (Gmail, Drive, Meet), then Edge for regular browsing on my PC, and Firefox for browsing on mobile.

It's a reasonable amount of work to manage your privacy these days even for someone with the knowledge. So many users either (1) don't know, (2) find out and don't really understand how to fix it so they don't, or (3) find out and don't care.

Without some level of accountability at the public policy level we won't see a level playing field. Google is doing with Chrome what Microsoft did with IE (back in the IE4/5/6 days). If they continue while public agencies move slowly they'll catch up eventually and I believe we'll see some level of enforcement action.

Re:Chrome exempts Google sites from user site data settings by devwastaken on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:29PM (#24818995)
Chromium works better. Those who care should build a better browser. People will not migrate to inferior products. If privacy is the concern you can use brave.