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Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by londons_explore on Sunday October 18, 2020 @09:40AM (#24817811)
The cause of this is:

* Android needs to know if a wifi network is working, since many wifi networks are broken and connecting to them degrades the user experience.

* Normally it does that by connecting to google.com, and if the connection succeeds, assume wifi is good to go.

* Google.com is blocked in china, meaning wifi would be broken in China.

* To fix this, Samsung has replaced google.com with qq.com in china.

* Samsung also needs to add a new DNS server to resolve qq.com, in case the network doesn't provide a DNS server and androids default of Google DNS is used (which is also blocked in China). Adding it last means it won't be used unless other DNS servers are broken.

Overall, this behaviour seems like the simplest and most logical fix Samsung could put in place to enable their users to use phones in China.

They could have run their own servers (but that would also have privacy issues), or they could have removed captive portal/bad network detection, but that probably would have broken some apps and led to unhappy users.

I can't see any other real fix in this case, and I certainly don't see any malicious intent in any of their actions.

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by culturestate on Sunday October 18, 2020 @09:56AM (#24817906)
> They could have run their own servers

This is exactly what Apple does, and they even include some fallback domains in case apple.com doesn't resolve. Samsung's design seems less like the most logical solution than it does the laziest solution.

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by SaltyBackendGuy on Sunday October 18, 2020 @10:02AM (#24817943)
> laziest solution.

Maybe. But also probably shortest path, least amount of risk and resource investment.

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by culturestate on Sunday October 18, 2020 @10:48AM (#24818218)
I mean, Samsung is one of the largest companies in the world and they already run a global cloud infrastructure to support their electronics division. I can't imagine that a PM who really cared would have much trouble getting a couple of endpoints provisioned if he or she wanted them.

The more likely scenario is that they came up with what they thought was a good-enough solution and just moved on without really considering the knock-on effects.

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by curryst on Tuesday October 20, 2020 @11:19AM (#24838339)
You need really high reliability for that; if those endpoints go down, none of your customers' phones will connect to wifi until you fix them. People would be extremely upset they thought they were on wifi but they were really blowing through their data.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by notRobot on Sunday October 18, 2020 @12:57PM (#24819226)
> shortest path, least amount of risk and resource investment.

That is laziness.

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by vinay427 on Sunday October 18, 2020 @09:00PM (#24822477)
They said "also," and didn't deny that it may be lazy. Since when is the lazy solution, by this definition, also automatically the illogical (or even "bad") one?
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by est31 on Sunday October 18, 2020 @10:13AM (#24818015)
Google might be blocked in mainland China, but is it blocked in Hong Kong? This page [0] says that Google isn't because HK is not behind the great firewall, but there are recent reports that the GFW was extended to HK as well [1], so maybe that page is outdated? But if Google had been blocked at a network level, then it would likely have made much larger headlines. Also, the author talks about Google play still being a present thing, not something unavailable to them.

[0]: https://www.comparitech.com/privacy-security-tools/blockedin...

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/china-great-fi...

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by culturestate on Sunday October 18, 2020 @10:22AM (#24818065)
No, the GFW doesn't exist in HK (yet).

GFW-compatible fallbacks are worth worrying about in HK, though, because in normal times there is a massive amount of cross-border travel between HK and SZ. Combine that with grey market HK phones being smuggled onto the mainland to avoid tax, and it's a pretty good bet that any phone destined for HK will makes its way across the border at some point.

If you roam on the mainland with a HK SIM you actually hop the GFW automatically, but most people swap SIMs at the border so that isn't reliable.

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by captn3m0 on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:05PM (#24819287)
> If you roam on the mainland with a HK SIM you actually hop the GFW automatically

This is quite interesting. So GFW is applied by ISPs exclusively on domestic SIMs? Does this mean any international SIMs on roaming hop the GFW?

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by vetinari on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:33PM (#24819567)
When you are roaming, your traffic should be tunneled to your home provider and go to open Internet from there.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by e_y_ on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:21PM (#24819431)
I think the traffic gets proxied (not sure if it's encrypted) back to servers run by your home carrier. So conversely if you use a China Mobile SIM in Hong Kong or overseas your traffic gets firewalled.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by londons_explore on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:16PM (#24819383)
Yes.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by lanevorockz on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:17AM (#24818458)
It's sad that people apparently see as ok for China to break international treaties related with HK. It's just a matter of time until all our life is controlled by big tech.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by LorenPechtel on Sunday October 18, 2020 @01:20PM (#24819419)
I'll half agree. This seems to me to just be a case of incompetent design rather than intentional evil. It's not a good solution but it's a workable solution--but whoever did it didn't realize it didn't need to be applied in Hong Kong.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by shalmanese on Monday October 19, 2020 @07:15AM (#24825242)
QQ DNS servers are available in HK and the Mainland, Google servers are available only in HK. A significant fraction of phones bought in HK end up in the mainland so it's prudent to pick the most interoperable option.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by yegle on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:41AM (#24818641)
Also: any DNS outside of Mainland China may get blocked by GFW later, breaking millions of users in China instantly. Looks like the safest way is to use a DNS in Mainland China.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by nohypercorrect on Monday October 19, 2020 @12:32AM (#24823344)
Hong Kong is not affected by GFW. So it is not the cause.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by grecy on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:42AM (#24818653)
That explains perfectly why they do it in China.

It does not explain why they do it in HK.

HK is not China.

Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by phkahler on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:51AM (#24818723)
And if the GFW comes to HK and your phone doesn't work any more, how you gonna get an update with this after it happens?
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by nogabebop23 on Sunday October 18, 2020 @11:58AM (#24818783)
This sort of large and noisy canary is exactly what the world needs more of. How many more people will scream and protest if their phone stops working due to China's actions, vs the vague and abstract cause of "Privacy"? It will also direct their wraith at the correct target.
Re:Samsung phones force Mainland China DNS service upon Hong... by Ihfhcub on Sunday October 18, 2020 @05:57PM (#24821446)
You do know HK had an different government than communist China, no? That recently lost its independence but is still mostly functioning. Most Americans I talk to seem oblivious to this