Some form of universal basic income will be sooner or later needed.

The question is how do we get there without becoming Venezuela and eating rats.

Parts of the US are already like that. You're lucky you don't live in one, but many people do. And unless you have significant savings, even more people are less than six months and a depression/recession job loss away from there.

Venezuela was done-in by so-called "Dutch disease"-- over-reliance on natural resource extraction, including subsidies for gasoline that made it nearly free-- and Chavez's corruption. He allowed his buddies to buy dollars at the "official" exchange rate which was 4 orders of magnitude out of line with the market rate. Flat-out robbery of the Venezuelan people.

Corporate capitalism is theft, but that doesn't mean all socialists are good or that no socialists are thieves.

> Venezuela was done-in by so-called "Dutch disease"-- over-reliance on natural resource extraction

There is always an excuse and yet after some 20+ experiments the pattern is always the same. The only thing that keeps changing are the excuses.

Socialism has seen plenty of successes. And yes, it has seem some failures.

The problem with communism is that it has too much history. It has a record, some of which is ugly, some of which is littered by some really awful people who claimed (and claim) to be "communists".

The problem with capitalism is that it has no history, no memory. It doesn't get better, and it doesn't learn. It's the same shit today that it was in the time of the Pinkertons. Government did get better at regulating it, but in the past 40 years it has gotten worse at doing so.

Capitalism has yielded more benefits including raising the global GDP per capita since the industrial revolution. Now centuries later its capitalism thats the problem all of a sudden, am I misunderstanding you?

Socialism on full blast will eventually run itself dry especially if enough people just seize to work driving down the profits keeping the system running.

Would be nice if people who downvote were forced to comment as part of the process, if I am wrong tell me why. I post for discussion, disagreeing is part of a discussion. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Here's some reality about the global GDP rising since the industrial revolution:

https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/text/01.html

https://www.core-econ.org/the-economy/book/images/web/figure...

It is favor politically unsavory right now to acknowledge any good capitalism has done. You’re going to be downvoted because people have been trained to react to what you said like you just suggested slavery wasn’t too bad.

I wouldnt say slavery isnt too bad its horrible. But I hear ya I just rather they bring facts to the table instead of hiding being a button.

If my country goes socialist I'd move my profits offshore and I imagine most other productive members of society would as well. I think most socialism believers fail to understand how globalism will play into all of this

> Capitalism is theft

You write, I reply, you reply to me and so on. You do your neighbour a favor and remember that. If you keep doing them favors and they won't help you, you'll stop helping them. The list of examples is long and and pattern is the same: humans keep track of "balances". This isn't a system that we invented or discovered, it's who we are and how we work.

Very much this.

And don't forget, Venezuela isn't really led by folks that care about their people nor do the elections seem free or fair. I think one of the real issues in doing socialist policies in the US is that the US's level of corruption and lack of care for other folks (at a government level) is more reminiscent of Venezuela and other corrupt regimes - and has been for years. There is not much trust in government and government doesn't seem keen on building such a thing.

We could go and base things more off of Nordic nations, but it is going to require more transparency, front-facing government that simply works without punishing people for not being perfect, and some major trust-building. (Initiatives like the reworking of the Indiana DMV are in order: I no longer hated the DMV there, and it can be even better with some work). We don't necessarily need any of this for some socialist policies, such as health care. There are plenty of examples around the globe we can source from to customize it to our population. We can make the tax code easier for average people in most situations to deal with as well simply to remove some friction.

What happened at the Indiana DMV?

> We could go and base things more off of Nordic nations

They're very much capitalist though.

There's a meme I've seen going around.

"Socialism never works."

"Norway is socialist and they're doing great."

"They're not socialist! They're capitalist countries with strong welfare systems."

"Then let's adopt those policies!"

"No, that's socialism!"

"Social democrat", which is a category that hardly anyone in the US seems to understand.

That term is funny because it basically means capitalism with a human face these days, but if you read Lenin, the big communists were talking about the fight for "Social Democracy" in the early 20th century. Terms get so diluted lol

Like others have pointed out, "socialist democracy" is a thing, and folks trying to pass these sorts of policies are outed as socialists in the US. Like everything else, socialism has a range of ways to see itself through.

There are so many little things you just couldn't do in the US. For example, the largest dairy coop - Tine - has to distribute goods from smaller dairies. I buy my wine and liquor at a state run store, which is nicer than any liquor store I knew in the US.

Health care is so much more efficient and you get things you can't have in the US: For example, they send a nurse to your house up to 6 times a day before you qualify for a nursing home. The nurse is free: The nursing home is a percentage of your pension (and everyone gets one). A bonus is that folks live longer than they did going to a nursing home sooner.

The state inspects chimneys to cut down on fires. Schooling doesn't really depend on the taxes in your local area, though is run more locally (as is some of the health care), and the libraries are nation-wide and can get books from other places.

Comparatively, socialist.

Venezuela was done in by severe sanctions imposed on the country by USA. Any other excuse is just the typical propaganda you see in American news media.

Buy a copy of the SAS survival guide and trap larger animals for better protein.

If you wanna avoid becoming Venezuela, just avoid being specifically targeted by US economic siege ("sanctions"). Which is pretty simple if you are the US.