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Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by hef19898 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @05:53AM (#24774889)
This way of writing, at least the overall arc, really shows. Ideally, writers know when to stop. The Revenge had such an ending, it was Season 3 if I remember well, before it turned into yet another soap opera. Babylon 5 on the other hand was a great example of having the whole 5 seasons basically written before they started production.
Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by soylentcola on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:48AM (#24775901)
This is one reason I really like the "miniseries" format. It's a broad enough label that it can include something a few 1-hr episodes long or 8 of them. I guess at the longer end, they're closer to a "season" of a typical show, but the idea is that it's a complete story arc with a defined beginning and end.

I love how modern formats allow for stories to be told where they otherwise wouldn't fit into a single film or work as a weekly recurring series. I've always felt that a movie is like a short story: you're dropped into the plot and the background is exposed through the course of action. Longer formats like the miniseries can tell a story more on the scale of a full novel.

When you get into stuff like "The Walking Dead" where it theoretically starts off like a novel but keeps renewing and keeps rehashing the same basic plot points for years, it's like one of those novel series where they just keep cranking out new sequels as long as people are buying them, quality be damned.

Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by hef19898 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:08AM (#24776059)
Another great example. I lost interest when they introduced Neegan. He could have been such a great villain in theory, kind of the evil twin version of Rick Grimes. Instead he turned into that unbeatable-because-authors-want-him-unbeatable kind of comic villain.
Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by danaris on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @08:46AM (#24775883)
Babylon 5 is actually a great example of what happens when you mess with cancellations.

During the production of season 4, JMS (the creator) was given to understand that season 5 was unlikely to happen. So he had to cram most of the rest of his plot into that season.

Having such a powerful, story-packed season 4 meant it did really well. So they put season 5 back on.

But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes.

It also meant (IIRC) that they lost some important actors, like Claudia Christian, for season 5. If Ivanova had been able to stay on to be B5's captain after Sheridan became President, the final season would have been much stronger.

Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by Izkata on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:50PM (#24779428)
> But he'd already used up (most of) the story he wanted to tell, because they told him he wasn't getting a season 5. So the season 5 we got ended up being a bit weak and wandering, with only the last few episodes (which were part of what would have been the ending of season 4, if he hadn't found out in time that there would be a season 5) having the same strength and memorability as the season 4 episodes.

All of season 5 was in the original plan as the side-stories for seasons 4 and 5, not written after the series was renewed. That's mainly why the filmed season 4 was so action-packed - the main plot wasn't really compressed in terms of screen time, instead there were no side plots.

Aside from that, the finale, Sleeping in Light, was filmed during season 4, that's why Claudia Christian was in it. They found out about the renewal just barely in time to use some season 5 budget to film The Deconstruction of Falling Stars, which only then became the season 4 finale. I think that was really the only thing not in the original plan.

Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by hef19898 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:02AM (#24776013)
Thanks for refreshing my memory! Loosing Claudia Christian resembles, for different reasons, loosing Terry Farrel for season 7 of DS9. Which, if you ask me, had quite some impact on Gul Dukats story arch. Whcih wasn't the best in season 7 after he was such a great villain over the whole series before.
Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by rleigh on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @09:22AM (#24776206)
Netflix has done similar stuff with Ascension, The Witcher, Altered Carbon and others.

I do prefer quality over quantity, and more episodes per season isn't IMO a good thing. Having tight focus, telling a complete story from beginning to end, is more important than adding a lot of unnecessary filler.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Altered Carbon, but thought Ascension was exemplary. While it finished with an ending that could have set it up for a second series, the story it told was complete, and leaving some mystery is no bad thing. I'm currently reading the Witcher books, and the series was a reasonable adaption of the content of the first two books of short stories. There's plenty more material for the future, but what was done in eight episodes was decent and self-contained. Way better value than a movie ticket.

What I like about these short series is that they are free to take risks and make niche stuff that doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator. There's plenty of stuff on Netflix that doesn't appeal to me, and that's OK. There's also stuff that would appeal were it not poorly-written and produced dross. I would really prefer their "data driven" decision making to bear in mind the lasting appeal of these productions within their niche interest, rather than only using the initial response as an indicator of long-term success. Some of the best productions took years to develop a good following, and yet were successful beyond expectations.

Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by 542354234235 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @10:52AM (#24777145)
It sounds like you only watched the first season of Altered Carbon. If true, just stop there. They made a second season with a slashed budget and also dialed back the sex and violence, making it overall very lackluster. Then, surprise, they cancelled it.
Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by rleigh on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @12:37PM (#24778579)
I watched both. I didn't particularly enjoy the first (just not my thing), but the second was boring. I did see it through out of curiosity, but I agree it's no surprise that it was cancelled.

For many of these productions, if the story has been told and it ended on a high note, then I think it would be better to draw a line under it, and move onto a brand new idea and explore new concepts rather than squeeze every last little bit out of something that's not going to advance much upon what's already been done. Better that than jumping the shark.

Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by newdude on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:01AM (#24777265)
One of my favorite series (S1).

Good observation the lack of sex and violence in the second one. Could be true. I thought the new "sleeve" actor killed the second. The one in the first season was much much more convincing.

Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by 542354234235 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @01:55PM (#24779477)
I agree that the new actor wasn’t nearly as strong, but I think a well written season with all the same flash and a full budget to do it would have saved it overall. It is really a shame that they hamstrung it like that. It would have been smarter to either leave it as a miniseries, or commit to a quality second season. As it is now, I’m less likely to recommend it and I add caveats to my recommendation. They eacked out a few more viewers by making a half assed second season, but hurt the brand long term. Which is what I think they are missing in general, that they are not properly counting the people that leave or fail to recommend Netflix because of a culmination of half-baked and abandoned shows that finally break the camel’s back.
Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by StillBored on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:33PM (#24781262)
They are doing the same thing to their signature series "Stranger Things". The first season was pure genius, they should have just ended it there with a "and they all live happily ever after". Each following season just ruins the series further.
Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by hef19898 on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @11:13AM (#24777414)
I watched season 1 and the first episode of season two. Stopped after that, I didn't want to ruin it for me.
Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by StillBored on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @04:29PM (#24781212)
Yes, the second season was terrible. I stumbled on Altered Carbon on netflix, and enjoyed it in fits and starts. Taken as a whole the first season has some great moments.

The local library had the audiobooks, so I listened to them on a long car trip between the first and second season being released. The writing isn't great but the stories definitely have their moments, even if its smothered in the usual "action flick" mindset.

I think netflix would have done a lot better to just stick to the plot of Broken Angels for the second season. But I think there was some rumbling on the message boards that it would have actually cost real cash to pull that off and netflix apparently wasn't willing to do it. So its the worst kind of serial scifi rubbish.

Its really too bad. The trash they invented as filler, was just that. But you can see their problem, the first book took place on an earth city, so they didn't need a lot of custom sets, and loads of CG.

My wife signed up for the hbo trial for a month and then canceled it. That was just about perfect. I watched the last season of game of thrones and a couple other things, and was getting bored with it just as the trial ended. I actually think that model might be the right one for the entire streaming ecosystem. Just rotate the streaming services every couple months.

Re:Netflix is creating a problem by cancelling TV shows too ... by galkk on Wednesday October 14, 2020 @02:11PM (#24779662)
Oh, Altered Carbon - great premise, totally failed 2nd part of the season, as for me. I don't know if the books are as bad, but Carbon was total disappointment for me.