Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by smogcutter on Friday October 02, 2020 @08:40PM
(#24668480)
One thing (among many) I really enjoy and admire about this blog is the way he goes “under the hood” of historical scholarship while still condensing complex topics into a blog post. We hear about primary sources, things we simply don’t or can’t know but can guess at, some of the state of the debate, etc. His writing gives you a sense of what a historian does in a way that many history books don’t.
Besides just being interesting in and of itself, I think it raises an important caution for laypeople. It’s easy to read a secondary source and take it as authoritative, while having no idea where that source falls in the wider conversation. Consider how high school students are taught very different things about the civil war depending on what state they happen to grow up in (not trying to raise a shitstorm, it’s an example). It’s hard to evaluate anything you read when you don’t know what you don’t know.
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by Vespasian on Friday October 02, 2020 @09:20PM
(#24668689)
I really love this blog (and support the author on Patreon).
His writing falls a little bit more on the academic side but is still entertaining and easy to follow (although quite some time is required ;) ).
What I like in particular is that he mentions when we simply don't know things and why we don't know them(e.g. because some materials don't last that long).
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by Symmetry on Saturday October 03, 2020 @08:09AM
(#24671424)
The problem with cannons eventually ended up being solved by just making a big, slightly irregular piece of metal and then boring a precise hole down the middle of it.
There was also another technique called spiral welding in use in the Middle East and Central Asia that apparently worked pretty well. IIRC when the British captures the Bengali cannons after the battle of Plassey they were very impressed by the tubes if not the carriages. They ended up spiking them because the bore widths weren't standardized but they could fire further than the English cannons.
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by plat12 on Friday October 02, 2020 @08:15PM
(#24668349)
> Blacksmiths were one of the few professions who could make their own tools and consequently any experienced smith would likely have a wide range of tools produced to fit his needs and preferences.
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by usrusr on Saturday October 03, 2020 @06:29AM
(#24671031)
But software engineering has an even more special characteristic: easy and accurate tool duplication. That's why our tools are so much less personal than those of a historical blacksmith. Combined with liberal licensing this ease of duplication easily makes software engineers less connected with the tooling they use than any tool user before them. Sometimes (often?) we wouldn't even know the exact version of the tool we are using (no, "latest stable" isn't an exact version)
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by guerrilla on Friday October 02, 2020 @11:33PM
(#24669297)
Oh it's my favorite time of the week again on HN! I truly love these blogs. Someone last week posted this[1] documentary which I think more people should see in connection with this series. But I'm still collecting questions, which I may take to Quora or SO at some point but I'd love to know how did we get started with (i.e. discover) this process and how does it differ from steel. Apparently we will learn about the latter in the next blog though, so I can wait on that.
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by dotancohen on Friday October 02, 2020 @08:14PM
(#24668342)
Nice post, but the author acknowledges that his terminology is wrong. What he is calling "hardness" is actually called "toughness", hardness is resistance to penetration. There are a few typos. But other than that, this is an excellent post.
If you're reading this Bret, that is some terrific research and writing! Thank you!
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by 082349872349872 on Saturday October 03, 2020 @03:57AM
(#24670406)
> "... which may have left those who finished their apprenticeships ('journeymen' in the parlance), stuck in subordinate positions until age and death opened up space in the local guild for a new master."
The "journey" part of journeymen is because they would usually travel around instead of waiting for space in the local guild. Compare the (nominally white collar) postdoc.
(I learned about Mons Meg from the Corries' interpretation of Bonny Dundee, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24617941 , a tune which deserves an electro or metal cover, but doesn't yet seem to have any.)
Stop, hammer time!
Go with the flux. It is said
If you can't weld with it
Then you probably are dead.
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by pfdietz on Saturday October 03, 2020 @05:43AM
(#24670849)
And all the versions of how you get the excess carbon out of that pig iron.
But even today, about 8% of global iron production is by direct reduction. As coal use is phased out, this will rise, and eventually all iron will again be produced without blast furnaces, possibly using "green" hydrogen as the reducing agent.
Re:Iron, How Did They Make It, Part III: Hammer-Time
by DarthGhandi on Sunday October 04, 2020 @12:34PM
(#24680252)
It doesn't at all of course, but it clearly makes the quality of plagiarised work worse, if you perhaps look into it more you'll see these sites and how they operate. The author has mentioned this before publicly and specifically noted it was due to HN exposure.
Absolutely hilariously how people found my original comment so offensive as to gray it out, was simply repeating something anyone can find in 3 seconds on Google.
Besides just being interesting in and of itself, I think it raises an important caution for laypeople. It’s easy to read a secondary source and take it as authoritative, while having no idea where that source falls in the wider conversation. Consider how high school students are taught very different things about the civil war depending on what state they happen to grow up in (not trying to raise a shitstorm, it’s an example). It’s hard to evaluate anything you read when you don’t know what you don’t know.
Plato complaining about doxophiles, "lovers of opinion" (ca -375): http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...
Part 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24517792
Part 2: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24591216
His writing falls a little bit more on the academic side but is still entertaining and easy to follow (although quite some time is required ;) ).
What I like in particular is that he mentions when we simply don't know things and why we don't know them(e.g. because some materials don't last that long).
There was also another technique called spiral welding in use in the Middle East and Central Asia that apparently worked pretty well. IIRC when the British captures the Bengali cannons after the battle of Plassey they were very impressed by the tubes if not the carriages. They ended up spiking them because the bore widths weren't standardized but they could fire further than the English cannons.
Just like software engineering
[1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuCnZClWwpQ
If you're reading this Bret, that is some terrific research and writing! Thank you!
The "journey" part of journeymen is because they would usually travel around instead of waiting for space in the local guild. Compare the (nominally white collar) postdoc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journeyman#Origin
(I still see wandering journeymen, in traditional garb, from time to time.)
Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mons_Meg#Construction
(I learned about Mons Meg from the Corries' interpretation of Bonny Dundee, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24617941 , a tune which deserves an electro or metal cover, but doesn't yet seem to have any.)
edit, better vid from another comment: https://youtu.be/RuCnZClWwpQ
Hail the blast furnace!
But even today, about 8% of global iron production is by direct reduction. As coal use is phased out, this will rise, and eventually all iron will again be produced without blast furnaces, possibly using "green" hydrogen as the reducing agent.
It's very much in his interest to have a crappy first draft hit the front page here and fix it up after that.
Probably the best way to view is searching the headline though, it's some brazen content thievery, some even copy comments like our own in there.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Collections%3A+Iron%2C+How+Did+The...
Absolutely hilariously how people found my original comment so offensive as to gray it out, was simply repeating something anyone can find in 3 seconds on Google.