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Re:Car seats as contraception by kazinator on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:00AM (#24647825)
> We estimate that these laws prevented only 57 car crash fatalities of children nationwide in 2017

That cannot be properly evaluated without considering second and additional order effects, like everyone driving huge SUVs to fit these child seats. All else is never equal.

> western society has a problem of "safety at any cost"

No, I think just America. Europe isn't so safety crazed.

For instance, it's common for Europeans not to wear bicycle helmets.

Re:Car seats as contraception by cycomanic on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:45AM (#24648055)
> > We estimate that these laws prevented only 57 car crash fatalities of children nationwide in 2017

> That cannot be properly evaluated without considering second and additional order effects, like everyone driving huge SUVs to fit these child seats. All else is never equal.

> > western society has a problem of "safety at any cost"

> No, I think just America. Europe isn't so safety crazed.

I would say that is a gross oversimplification. It depends a lot on country, on safety "area" etc.. For instance most European countries have much stricter laws around car safety (e.g. in Germany you have to get an extensive safety check every couple of years) and driver licences.

Regarding bicycle helmets I think this is much more a function of when the cycling culture developed in the country, e.g. in the Netherlands, Germany, Denmark biking has been a common way of commuting for a long time (way before helmets came about) and helmets are not that common, while in Sweden for instance most cyclists were helmets.

Re:Car seats as contraception by tshaddox on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:15AM (#24647893)
It’s extremely common for Americans to not wear bicycle helmets.
Re:Car seats as contraception by hobofan on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:28AM (#24647962)
I'm not sure if there is a big cultural divided regarding wearing helmets for safety reasons.

Anecdotally it's most strongly driven by "competition" with cars:

- Small city -> Not that much traffic -> No helments

- Big city with lacking bike infrastructure/no strong biking culture -> A lot of close encounters with cars -> Helmets

- Big city with established biking culture -> No helmets

Re:Car seats as contraception by IncRnd on Thursday October 01, 2020 @03:19AM (#24648273)
I think you have an inherent bias in your examples. There are bike riders outside of cities.
Re:Car seats as contraception by hobofan on Thursday October 01, 2020 @09:18AM (#24650477)
If you mean rural travel between small cities/towns, that's what I head in mind too with the first example (as that's the setting I grew up in).

If you mean sport biking (race, mountainbike, long distance), then you are right that I didn't consider those.

Re:Car seats as contraception by pletnes on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:16AM (#24647898)
Since they don’t bicycle, you mean?
Re:Car seats as contraception by kortilla on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:20AM (#24647920)
No, the ones that do bicycle frequently don’t wear helmets. The percentage varies widely based on city.
Re:Car seats as contraception by deathgrips on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:28AM (#24647963)
Yes, they just need to magically shrink the distances between cities
Re:Car seats as contraception by jaclaz on Thursday October 01, 2020 @04:47AM (#24648821)
>No, I think just America. Europe isn't so safety crazed. Well, US are crazy about reponsabilities (the "objects seen in this mirror ...") more than safety.

The EU (generally speaking) tends to be more attentive to some more practical aspects of safety, as an other commenter noted periodical revisions/check of cars, or fire regulations tend to be much stricter than the US.

But - cannot say in other EU countries - here (Italy) we have our own forms of craziness.

Back to the children seats, we have now a new norm mandating an alarm (also via Bluetooth and/or SMS) on seats to prevent parents forgetting toddlers strapped to the seat and walking away after having parked the car.

Italian, not too bad on Google translate:

https://www.automobile.it/magazine/burocrazia/seggiolino-ant...

There were countrywide a very small number of child deaths for this reason (8 or 9 documented cases in the last 20 year or so), and while this is extremely sad it doesn't seem to me like it jutifies the provision.

Re:Car seats as contraception by PaulAJ on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:57AM (#24648119)
Actually we just focus our efforts on making sure everyone has potable water.
Re:Car seats as contraception by cs02rm0 on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:24AM (#24647944)
No, I think just America. Europe isn't so safety crazed.

For instance, it's common for Europeans not to wear bicycle helmets.

That doesn't hold for the UK. Maybe it's spreading.

Re:Car seats as contraception by Thlom on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:43AM (#24648042)
It's common to ride without a helmet in countries where cycling is a normal activity. Basically Netherlands, Denmark, parts of Belgium, Germany and France. Where cycling is mostly a leisure activity on the weekends and for enthusiasts, helmet usage is much higher.
Re:Car seats as contraception by toyg on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:48AM (#24648075)
I never considered the possibility of wearing a helmet on a bike in non-competitive settings in Italy. Only after I moved to the UK (and had children), did I start using it regularly. To this day I’m not sure whether it’s compulsory or not, but most people have it, so...
Re:Car seats as contraception by pja on Thursday October 01, 2020 @02:55AM (#24648113)
It's not compulsory in the UK to wear cycle helmets.

There has been the occasional attempt to pass such a law in the past, but none were successful. Cyclist organisations are very averse to helmet laws, seeing them as marking cycling out as some unusually dangerous activity, which in turn has an inevitable negative effect on cyclist numbers.