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Re:How to Get Promoted by bonoboTP on Monday September 28, 2020 @04:00PM (#24620676)
You are right, but there is a sober middle ground.

There is a famous quote by Hungarian writer Mikszáth saying "It is not enough to be honorable, one also has to appear so".

You don't have to go all-in in "the game", it's enough to strategically adjust even minor things to make sure your work doesn't go unnoticed, that you aren't spending effort and emotional energy on things that will ultimately not lead to anything. If you're doing it for your own enjoyment, to feel good about accomplishments or just scratch your problem-solving itch, great. But if you're naive and want to be a "good boy" who helps others because and who just naturally takes on work that is unrewarding in itself, but you feel you need to play nice etc, then perhaps this view can help. People will step over you and you will not understand why things are happening. You will feel betrayed when it's not really betrayal, just "the game" being played.

Be aware of it and make a conscious choice of when to play it and when not to play it. But when you don't play it, be aware of the trade-offs.

Re:How to Get Promoted by bumby on Monday September 28, 2020 @04:38PM (#24620986)
With all due respect to Mikszáth, you don’t have full control over how you “appear” to others. Sure, we can influence our appearance with our actions but it’s also impacted by things outside our control. People will always view our actions through their unique lens biased by their own experiences, thoughts, mental models etc.

I think the Stoics would argue it’s better to just focus on what’s the right thing to do regardless of how it “appears” externally

Re:How to Get Promoted by ivalm on Monday September 28, 2020 @05:07PM (#24621232)
> I think the Stoics would argue it’s better to just focus on what’s the right thing to do regardless of how it “appears” externally

But Stoics also do not pursue "fame and fortune." The advice is fundamentally not directed at Stoics.

Re:How to Get Promoted by bumby on Monday September 28, 2020 @05:20PM (#24621349)
Fair point, but I was following the GP comment theme that “playing the game” for fame and fortune may not be the best path
Re:How to Get Promoted by bonoboTP on Monday September 28, 2020 @08:38PM (#24622894)
People are simpler and more predictable than you'd think. There are techniques (as outlined in the article) that can predictably improve how other people see you.

> I think the Stoics would argue it’s better to just focus on what’s the right thing to do regardless of how it “appears” externally

That quote is often referenced in political corruption cases, where the politician argues he's innocent but acknowledges they might appear suspicious because they weren't careful enough to be sure to also "appear honest", not just "be honest". It's also how you have to collect paper trails and documentation if you expect that some case of yours may go to court, even if you're innocent.

Anyway, I see that people are misunderstanding what I was pointing at.

Yes the right thing is important, but it's important because it's the right thing, not because it will lead to promotions and money and fame. Don't confuse it. My qualms are with people who declare that they will stick to their principles, out of principle and not at all because they expect anything in return. And then they get upset when they get nothing in return. My problem is with this second part, not with the first.

Re:How to Get Promoted by smallnamespace on Tuesday September 29, 2020 @08:07AM (#24626674)
> My qualms are with people who declare that they will stick to their principles, out of principle and not at all because they expect anything in return. And then they get upset when they get nothing in return.

If one were a touch cynical though, loudly complaining about not getting credit with a pretended naivety is also one way of playing ‘the game’ , as you put it (even if it’s not to your taste).

Re:How to Get Promoted by bumby on Tuesday September 29, 2020 @06:59AM (#24626195)
>And then they get upset when they get nothing in return

Good point, I’m tracking you now and agree 100%. Thank you for clarifying

Re:How to Get Promoted by fogetti on Monday September 28, 2020 @05:44PM (#24621535)
Now that's a classic! I mean the way you argue, not the quote. Very nice, very classic moral relativism and postmodernism. People should never trust themselves and their understanding of the world.
Re:How to Get Promoted by bonoboTP on Monday September 28, 2020 @08:25PM (#24622807)
What I'm saying is that understanding the game that others play is necessary, whether you want to play it or not. If you don't play it because you're ignorant and don't even see that this is going on then you allow yourself to be exploited, you will expect things to happen to you that won't happen, then you become bitter and envious. On the other hand, if you consciously recognize that this game exists, you can navigate it better and still live the way you want, without being surprised by the consequences. For example, you can spend a lot of invisible effort on a project, because you hold the principle that you will not produce bad work even if nobody is looking. That's fine. But then don't go expecting that someone will reward you and don't be upset when promotions don't come. If you consciously understand this, you will know ahead of time that that "manipulative jerk" office mate will get promoted, so when it happens, you don't get angry and disappointed. You can stay calm and concentrated on your own journey.

By realizing that you do that invisible hard work (that leads to other people's promotions and enriches others) for your own spiritual sake or for a higher cause or for the order of the universe or whatever other reason, you can live in a balanced way, because you're consciously going in with this trade-off. You live up to some principles that you won't play games, you will play straight up, with high quality work without boasting and playing it up or telling anyone about it, but you also don't desire the riches and the status, that's okay.

My issue is with people who do wishful thinking. They set some principles first and declare that this is how the world operates. When it doesn't operate that way, they don't update their model of the world, but shut their eyes and deny the dark side of getting ahead, but then still complain that the world doesn't conform to their ideal.

This is far from postmodernism. I say look at the objective cold facts: who gets ahead and how, understand the rules, then consciously play it or don't play it, but know each trade-off involved and don't be surprised when your choice leads to the predicted result. And that predicted result could be perfectly fine! You don't have to get promoted out of technical work. Many people explicitly hate managing people and budgets and playing politics and love working with concrete technical things, and will happily trade those promotions and high-class life for an honest, principled, simple life working on interesting problems for decades without climbing a career ladder or keeping up with the Joneses. Nothing wrong with that! But then know that this is the deal you're subscribing to.