News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by buzzerbetrayed on Monday September 28, 2020 @12:02AM (#24612842)
The father should be able to choose when and how he bonds with his children. It isn’t for the state to decide the fathers work schedule that is best for him to raise a child. That’s government overreach. It’s one thing for the government to say you may stop working. It’s another thing entirely for them to force you to do so.
Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by didibus on Monday September 28, 2020 @03:03AM (#24613750)
I'm not advocating for this, but I find the thought worth exploring.

I think with rasing children there's a question of where lies the responsability and consequences? Laws mandate many things that are meant for you to clean up after yourself and not leave a mess which others have to be burdened with.

In theory, one could argue raising a child is a similar scenario, and I think we already have many laws around it to some extent.

So it could be said that both parents must share the burden, and thus they could both be mandated to take time off. Or it could be argued that this will lead to children raised better and who will be more productive to society at large, so also could justify mandating it, etc.

I'm not really into the idea, because it assumes a lot and I feel so many situations related to parenthood are much more complex, so it's hard to blanket say what is best for all parties, but I feel it's not unprecedented to make laws around responssabilities of a parent towards their child.

Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by markdown on Monday September 28, 2020 @12:16AM (#24612902)
Every worker deserves the same opportunity to spend time with their children.

The government wouldn't be forcing any father to do anything. The government would be forcing companies to provide all workers the privilege of time off for parenting. A father who didn't want to bond with his children could use the time off to go fishing, take up woodworking, watch youtube videos, or work on a side-business.

Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by dleslie on Monday September 28, 2020 @01:39AM (#24613310)
> A father who didn't want to bond with his children could use the time off to go fishing, take up woodworking, watch youtube videos

I mean, you can do these things with your kids.

Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by jariel on Monday September 28, 2020 @01:46AM (#24613338)
Forcing them to step away from work is 100% 'forcing' them to do something.

Enough with this, and the 'Swedish shaming' as noted above.

People are offered leave, that's good, if they don't want to take it, it's none of anyone's business really.

Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by didibus on Monday September 28, 2020 @03:10AM (#24613793)
> People are offered leave, that's good, if they don't want to take it, it's none of anyone's business really

Hum... wouldn't that depend on why you're not taking them?

Say you're not taking them because of social pressure?

Say you don't want to take them because doing so will put you up for promotion before your co-workers who do?

Say you don't want to take them because it result in a loss of money (if say employer offers reduced pay only)

And maybe others. But I feel some of those reasons call for further discussion. Like, it shouldn't be that you don't take them due to social pressure, lower pay, or to get ahead. None of these seem equally fair to all employees.

If you really just really were someone whose favourite thing to do is go to work day in, day out, then ok sure. It be hard to argue against that, but like... really?

Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by jariel on Monday September 28, 2020 @03:45AM (#24614060)
"wouldn't that depend on why you're not taking them?"

No, definitely not.

You've made no argument here.

It's not the company or the government's business why someone would want to take family leave - or not - same for vacation time, or where someone would go, or what they do frankly.

Unless it's illegal or really adversely affecting the company, or obviously if the company is trying to 'suppress' people from taking vacay etc..

Forcing vacations and such things, to achieve some kind of ideological and probably unscientific premise is a bridge too far.

Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by didibus on Monday September 28, 2020 @04:30AM (#24614334)
It could be seen as workers rights, that's my point.

If the company is promoting those who don't, that can be seen as retaliation against those who do.

If companies don't provide adequate pay for employees who have a child, it can be seen as punishment for those who bear the burden of children for all others.

And if you're not taking them because of social pressure, well then it's a vicious cycle, since no one takes them due to pressure, and now it invalidates the point of giving them in the first place. So possibly something needs to be done to break the cycle.

Etc.

I'm not saying any of this is reason enough to push for enforcement or anything like that. But it's also not simply a matter of "not being anyone's business". For example, it can very much be my business if I want to be able to take some time off, and not lose out to my co-workers on the next promotion just because I wanted to take some time to take care for my new born. Same could be said for sick leave or other.

So I guess we could reframe the debate in terms of:

Is it fair for a man who would like to take some time to care for his new born, that doing so could hurt his career? And off course, that asks a greater question: Do we want to promote fatherhood and give incentives for people to have kids and care for them properly? Or would we rather incentivize full time careers with little to no downtime and complete dedication to work?

Re:French fathers will now get 28 days of paternity leave by vianneychevalie on Monday September 28, 2020 @02:44AM (#24613647)
How about mandatory education?