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Re:Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for... by systemvoltage on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:11PM (#24580116)
Your style of thinking cannot be popular on HN, but we all know why this is good for the consumer - in this day and age, businesses will completely rip apart the consumer in every which way. They'll not miss a chance to fuck the consumer's privacy, financial state, psychology, innocence and addiction.

HN crowd wants something they can run sudo on. But people here have not got a slighest idea of how to run a device for close to a billion+ people.

Re:Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for... by sneak on Thursday September 24, 2020 @04:13PM (#24583071)
> Your style of thinking cannot be popular on HN, but we all know why this is good for the consumer - in this day and age, businesses will completely rip apart the consumer in every which way. They'll not miss a chance to fuck the consumer's privacy, financial state, psychology, innocence and addiction.

Apple is among the worst offenders here, too. They expressly permit all sorts of embedded spyware in almost every single app in their App Store, and their view is that you agreed and consented to it when you accepted the iOS/App Store Terms of Service.

They could build platform security features like Little Snitch into the OS to allow users to prevent it, but they don't.

They could make App Store rules to keep apps from spying on you when you use them, but they don't.

They could end to end encrypt device backups, so the US military and FBI couldn't read all of your iMessage history whenever they want without a warrant or probable cause, but they don't. (In fact, they were going to, but then specifically stopped.[1])

The "Apple respects user privacy" story is just brand marketing, not reality.

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...

Re:Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for... by systemvoltage on Thursday September 24, 2020 @05:02PM (#24583613)
Thanks for providing the source about encrypted backups, that's chilling.

Can you provide sources for other claims in your comments? I want to read up more on what sorts things these apps do.

Apple is by far the best when it comes to privacy relative to the others. Would you trust Microsoft, Google, or literally any other company (even Canonical Ubuntu) more than Apple?

Re:Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for... by sneak on Thursday September 24, 2020 @08:21PM (#24585203)
Microsoft, Google, and Apple are all participants in the PRISM program, which provides data to the US federal government without a warrant (FBI and military intelligence) under the authority they claim via FISA Amendments Act Section 702. Edward Snowden is the reason we know about this.

https://www.eff.org/702-spying

Any data you provide to any of those companies (or any others that have been added in the time since, which presumably includes Dropbox and AWS) that is not end to end encrypted should be considered compromised by the state, or able to be compromised by the state at any time the moment they want to look. (PRISM is not mass surveillance, they specify the accounts they want data for.)

As far as the other apps go, you can watch it yourself. Install the iOS app called Charles Proxy, and you can see all of the hidden connections that apps are making.

Alternately, install NextDNS, and make sure your custom configuration settings (on their setup portal) is set to retain logs for a few hours. You’ll be able to see all of the different hostnames to which your phone connects.

I have stopped using iCloud, and only use Google for YouTube (or corporate/work stuff, for which I have no special desire for privacy from the state). I give my clients the option, though, if they wish to use a different method of collaboration.

Re:Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for... by systemvoltage on Thursday September 24, 2020 @09:06PM (#24585494)
The spying thing is a problem with US gov. Why are you dinging Apple for that? In fact, Apple refused to unlock the phone when FBI requested for the famous shooting case (I forgot). Others do the same - Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. Apple is complying to the law.

Also, Apple is putting encryption in hardware to prevent this sort of a thing. They don't have keys to the device.

Re:Epic, Spotify, and Tinder form advocacy group to push for... by sneak on Friday September 25, 2020 @12:06AM (#24586481)
Google implemented end-to-end encrypted backups for Android devices, which prevents the government from getting anything useful when they pull the device’s backed up data from Google.

Apple does not implement end-to-end encryption for their backups, which is why I’m “dinging” them. The iCloud device backups that happen each night on the device are backed up with Apple keys, which means that Apple can decrypt your entire message history for the device, without the device. iCloud Backup is on by default for every iPhone and iPad, which it is not inaccurate to describe as an effective cryptographic backdoor in iMessage’s end-to-end encryption, because it escrows the iMessage keys (as well as the complete message history) to Apple with Apple keys, each and every day. They don’t need any “keys to the device”.

This is well documented in Apple’s KB article about iCloud encryption: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

Apple’s on-device hardware encryption has nothing to do with this problem. This is a software design issue that Apple chose. Google chose a better, safer way to do it.

The fact that it’s a problem with the US government is a red herring. There are still good and bad choices in cryptographic system design.

Please do read the linked URL. Apple was on track to fix this glaring issue, and then, according to Reuters, Apple Legal shut down the project. Whether it was done specifically on FBI request, or proactively by Apple to butter up the FBI, is irrelevant: the FBI has no legal basis to command Apple to drop this project, so the decision not to safeguard user data from government snoops rests solely with Apple.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...

Additionally, the phone that Apple famously refused to unlock is irrelevant: Apple had already provided all of the related account’s iCloud data (presumably including a full device backup) to the FBI. It’s not in Apple or the FBI’s interest to draw attention to this detail.

I wonder if perhaps the news story about how “Apple vs FBI for user privacy” was an FBI reciprocation to aid Apple’s privacy brand narrative in exchange for Apple not encrypting backups (so Apple can always provide all of the device data to the FBI without the phone).