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Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by TylerE on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @01:37PM (#24569705)
It's not just liquid vs gas.

Hydrogen has a couple of "unique" properties that make it especially disadvantageous.

Namely: It'll diffuse through just about anything on a fairly short time scale if it isn't kept as a liquid at cryogenic temperatures, and it causes almost all metals to become brittle.

I think hydrogen is basically a dead-end as energy storage, except in a few niche applications where it's produced as a byproduct and can be consumed immediately.

Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by _ph_ on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @03:11PM (#24570745)
Steel production, where the hydrogen is a chemical reagent, might be one of the few exceptions where hydrogen is really the best choice.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by cultus on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @03:17PM (#24570803)
Not to mention liquid H2 has quite a bit lower energy density than liquid fossil fuels. Many rockets have used kerosene in their first stages for this reason. Not the end of the world for aircraft, but certainly another major disadvantage.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by funcDropShadow on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @03:50PM (#24571131)
But the energy density per mass is still better than Li-ion batteries.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by nickik on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @07:09PM (#24573327)
Li-ion batteries are improving at a faster rate, and you can use your gravitational energy to recharge the battery.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by dmurray on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:22PM (#24573902)
How does that work? You run your propellor in reverse like a wind turbine?

This doesn't sound completely ridiculous but is there even any proof of concept for that? The gravitational potential energy doesn't seem all that high - most airplane fuel is burnt maintaining height, not gaining it - to justify the complexity of recovering some small fraction of it. Still, I once thought the same about regenerative braking in electric cars.

Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by 8note on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:37PM (#24574740)
Hydrogen is a storage mechanism; there'd be a way to reclaim your energy either way
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by tempestn on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @04:19PM (#24571487)
It's also prone to explode, and is a potent (indirect) greenhouse gas if it leaks into the atmosphere. Agreed that it will have some niche applications though. As well as the byproduct situation, there are likely situations where batteries wouldn't be feasible due to insufficient capacity or too great of weight. Aerospace maybe?
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by CyberDildonics on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:31PM (#24572915)
Hydrogen (and helium) are too light to stay in the atmosphere and are lost once released.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by tgflynn on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @05:02PM (#24572000)
How is hydrogen a greenhouse gas (and what do you mean by "indirect") ?
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by ben509 on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @05:42PM (#24572426)
I think it'd be an "indirect" GG because it's electricity intensive to obtain it, and that likely comes from a carbon emitting source. The same argument is often made about electric vehicles.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by IanCal on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @06:40PM (#24573036)
In this case it's about how it interacts with OH radicals in the atmosphere, meaning other GHG stay in the atmosphere longer. So it's not a greenhouse gas, but it makes others hang around longer.

> The reaction of hydrogen with OH radicals has a further side-effect of reducing the availability of OH radicals with potential impacts on the build-up of greenhouse gases.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by godelski on Thursday September 24, 2020 @02:18AM (#24575810)
Well you don't typically get hydrogen from H2O, you get it from CH4. So your byproduct isn't oxygen, it is carbon. Unlike electric vehicles, it doesn't get greener as the grid changes to wind/solar/nuclear/hydro. There's just more hydrogens per hydrocarbon than water. Not to mention dealing with oxidation.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by Hypx on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @07:39PM (#24573576)
> Namely: It'll diffuse through just about anything on a fairly short time scale if it isn't kept as a liquid at cryogenic temperatures, and it causes almost all metals to become brittle.

Both claims are wildly wrong. Neither actually happens except at high temperatures and only with certain metals.

Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by theamk on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @08:30PM (#24573980)
Could you elaborate about “wildly wrong”?

I am not an expert on this, but random internet searches such as [0] indicate that common materials, like high strength steel, are susceptible to both diffusion and embrittlement at room temperature

[0] https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f10/pipeline...

Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by Hypx on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @09:52PM (#24574524)
Those tests seem to be at >200˚C if I’m not mistaken. Hardly room temperature. Regardless, the main trick is to avoid using certain types of high-strength steel, line exposed surfaces with polymers, or using composites where ever possible. The problem is for the most part solved.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by TylerE on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @11:25PM (#24574948)
So you're admitting the problem exists, which is my entire point.

It's hardly a theoretical-only problem, either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_span_replacement_of_th...

Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by Hypx on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @11:38PM (#24575006)
In the same sense all chemicals have handling issues. In practice, it is basically solved.

That's probably due to them using a vulnerable alloy, and was likely exposed to hydrogen while at a high temperatures. This is nothing like a gas tank filled will hydrogen.

Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by 8note on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:36PM (#24574738)
What's a high temperature though? -50C?
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by Hypx on Wednesday September 23, 2020 @10:57PM (#24574815)
Well into the hundreds of degrees C.
Re:Ask HN: Is hydrogen likely to be a major source of power ... by stewbrew on Thursday September 24, 2020 @12:56AM (#24575375)
That's why some bet on ammoniac.