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Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by ncmncm on Sunday September 20, 2020 @07:24PM (#24538288)
All those tobacco, oil and paint executives retired with their $millions untouched, despite millions of deaths laid right at their doorsteps.

Shoot up a Walmart, though, or crash one plane, and the nation goes on a rampage.

Laws already on the books allow those executives to be charged personally. I want a Justice Department that will use the law to take on the killers of millions.

Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by danans on Monday September 21, 2020 @12:45AM (#24539896)
> Shoot up a Walmart ... and the nation goes on a rampage.

And rightly so. The most prominent recent example of that was motivated by racism against Hispanics. It was terrorism.

Using that as a foil for real crimes by those industry executives (whom I agree in a better society should be held to justice for their actions) reads like an apologism of one type of mass murder for another.

There are far lesser crimes - like selling crack - that are far better examples of the unequal application of justice.

Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by ncmncm on Monday September 21, 2020 @01:03AM (#24539983)
Stay with me here: killing thousands or millions of people, by slow death from cancer, is strictly worse than killing tens at your local retailer.

Has even a single tobacco or coal executive been arraigned for murder?

Is killing millions for profit less bad than killing tens for bigotry?

Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by danans on Monday September 21, 2020 @01:27AM (#24540113)
> Is killing millions for profit less bad than killing tens for bigotry?

I'm saying it's a pointless comparison. They're both horrendous crimes and should both be punished and justice pursued for their victims. I agree with you that it's a crying shame that killing millions for profit does not get punished.

A much better for foil to make your point - which I agree is a valid one - would be the number of people in prisons for nonviolent offenses thanks to things like 3-strikes laws, not bigoted murderers.

Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by ncmncm on Monday September 21, 2020 @11:05AM (#24544281)
That is avoiding the issue. Avoiding is exactly how we got here.
Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by danans on Monday September 21, 2020 @03:26PM (#24547399)
Are you advocating that we treat bigotry-motivated mass murder as occurred at the El Paso Walmart more leniently (as a society and in the justice system), just because we are failing to hold the even greater crimes accountable? That is the implied subtext of your original comment, at least as I read it.

If that's not what you are advocating, then I'd argue the Walmart shooter is a poorly chosen example, and that we are in agreement about the overall issue (lack of accountability for very wealthy executives whose businesses have caused the death of tons of people).

Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by ncmncm on Monday September 21, 2020 @04:14PM (#24547915)
I said not one word about El Paso. Inventing leniency advocacy is not honest.

Still, the whole scene was entirely within the capabilities of the El Paso PD. You know about it only because it was lurid, not because it had any effect on you at all (presuming you don't shop at that Walmart).

A million cancer cases for corporate profit are not lurid enough, evidently.

A national response to cases like El Paso would crack down on right-wing nutjobs, but that (too) is absolutely not happening. That is a problem with the FBI, not the DoJ, and is another worthy topic, but not this one.

The DoJ already have all they need to empanel grand juries and issue indictments.

Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by danans on Tuesday September 22, 2020 @07:06PM (#24561064)
> You know about it only because it was lurid, not because it had any effect on you at all (presuming you don't shop at that Walmart).

As someone who has on many occasions been the recipient of physical intimidation and harassment by white supremacists, I assure you it affects me when it happens to others, in whatever degree.

> A national response to cases like El Paso would crack down on right-wing nutjobs, but that (too) is absolutely not happening. That is a problem with the FBI

The FBI are getting a little bit of pushback on that from DoJ's boss:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/us/politics/fbi-russia.ht...

There is an active whistleblower complaint from within DHS that the administration-appointed heads of that department are trying to suppress release of assessments of the white supremacist threat:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/homeland-security-whi...

Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by lowdose on Sunday September 20, 2020 @08:46PM (#24538721)
Yes exactly this, I think it is the only way to restore faith in capitalism. The bailouts should also over.
Re:How the oil industry made us doubt climate change by defterGoose on Monday September 21, 2020 @02:21AM (#24540404)
It's a difficult proposition to "restore faith in capitalism" when the core tenet of that ideology, that consumption is good because it is a marker of human industriousness, is directly responsible for most if not all of the environmental problems that we now face.

Am I saying it is a bad thing to expand human knowledge and endeavor? Of course not, I like the medications and conveniences that it has brought me. But these things are also absolutely not an untainted justification of the processes used by capitalism to arrive at the result. The Soviets made great planes and tanks too, and Jonas Salk had no problem giving away the rights to his Polio vaccine. The Apollo program, perhaps the USA's greatest achievement, was also its greatest experiment in communal effort.