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Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by kenjackson on Saturday September 19, 2020 @11:10AM (#24527901)
BTW, as someone who is Black — I didn’t find a single thing in your post racist. It talked about race, but not in a way to oppress or demean any group. At least that was my take.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by asveikau on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:22PM (#24528528)
I'm a white dude, so obviously I can't speak for black people and it's not typically appropriate for me to get super offended about this on your behalf, but personally there's something so jarring to me when people use "blacks" as a plural noun. I think by prior experience, when I hear it put that way it subconsciously primes me to expect the person speaking is angry and racist. I've just heard so many people say it that way in agitated tones.

Then again, I've also definitely heard older people talk that way and they don't seem to mean harm or be angry.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by crispyporkbites on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:22PM (#24529008)
It’s not a racist post obviously- but it is false to group people into the American race definitions in a scientific discussion, because it doesn’t hold true and has been debunked a long time ago as a genetic definition.

It can apply from a socio economic angle, but that applies only in America or a country that uses American racial profiles for systemic racism.

Edit: Aware this is a controversial viewpoint in non-scientific communities, so here's some interesting comments from Wikipedia on the subject:

> Modern scholarship regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society.[2] While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.[1][3][4]

> Social conceptions and groupings of races have varied over time, often involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits.[5] Today, scientists consider such biological essentialism obsolete,[6] and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits.[7][8][9][10][11]

> Even though there is a broad scientific agreement that essentialist and typological conceptualizations of race are untenable,[12][13][14][15][16][17] scientists around the world continue to conceptualize race in widely differing ways.[18] While some researchers continue to use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits or observable differences in behavior, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race is inherently naive[7] or simplistic.[19] Still others argue that, among humans, race has no taxonomic significance because all living humans belong to the same subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens.[20][21]

Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by umanwizard on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:27PM (#24529054)
I’ve gotten blood tests done where the normal range for various parameters was listed as being different for different racial groups.

If there is no correlation between genes and “American race definitions”, how is this possible?

Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by crispyporkbites on Saturday September 19, 2020 @01:46PM (#24529181)
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by umanwizard on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:22PM (#24529818)
I’m aware that race is not a strictly defined category, and that racial classification is arbitrary to a large extent. However, this doesn’t answer my question.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by crispyporkbites on Saturday September 19, 2020 @03:42PM (#24529911)
It demonstrates the logical fallacy - if it's an arbitrary classification, as you say, how can those blood test groupings be accurate? They can, at best, be arbitrary
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by umanwizard on Saturday September 19, 2020 @07:51PM (#24531052)
“Arbitrary” doesn’t mean “uniformly random”. Even though the lines are blurred, there is still a strong correlation between being considered part of a particular racial classification in the US and having certain genes.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by hajimemash on Saturday September 19, 2020 @07:32PM (#24530978)
Thanks for the interesting first link. Now I understand your earlier comment
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by brmgb on Saturday September 19, 2020 @11:24AM (#24528028)
That's because you are American. As a foreigner, I find the idea that you can label a group as "black" and imagine it to be both descriptive and homegenous enough to see meaningful genetic variations relative to another group labeled as "white" somewhat funny and verging on racism (but then again I have been conditioned from childhood to see the word race applied to humans as something deeply racist whereas it is seen as completely innocuous in an American cultural context).
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by microcolonel on Saturday September 19, 2020 @11:30AM (#24528077)
> I find the idea that you can label a group as "black" and imagine it to be both descriptive and homegenous enough...

No, the whole distinction of black is dark skin colour, which is a proxy for skin melanin, which is (far as I'm aware) the primary factor determining vitamin D production from sun exposure (which is not directly useful in the body, but is the form that is often measured).

Also, because of the effect on vitamin D production from sun exposure, there is some evidence that other aspects of how vitamin D is handled by the body are different for people with darker skin, maybe because their ancestors got more than enough of it.

This isn't even about social categories “Black” and “White”, it is literally about the direct correlates of skin colour.

Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by kipchak on Saturday September 19, 2020 @11:53AM (#24528276)
>This isn't even about social categories “Black” and “White”, it is literally about the direct correlates of skin colour. To expand upon this according to an ONS study "Blacks" in England and whales had a 1.9 times higher rate of dying compared to "Whites" after socioeconomic controls, while Pakistani and Bangladeshi ethnic groups were 1.6 times more likely.[1] This makes sense if you figure lighter skin was a evolved trait for those in latitudes that got less sun. [2]

[1] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsde...

[2]https://www.pnas.org/content/107/Supplement_2/8962

Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by secondcoming on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:31PM (#24528585)
Whales?
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by Bud on Saturday September 19, 2020 @12:42PM (#24528672)
Let's assume that was just a particularly hilarious typo for "Wales".
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by kipchak on Saturday September 19, 2020 @07:29PM (#24530965)
Indeed, though thinking about it people living in "whales" would probably have low vitamin D levels as well.
Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by umanwizard on Saturday September 19, 2020 @07:57PM (#24531074)
I spent about 3 seconds wondering why in the world you were talking about whale vitamin-D levels, and thinking it was vaguely offensive that you were comparing ethnic/racial groups of humans to marine mammals.

Then I remembered that Wales exists :)

Re:SARS-CoV-2 positivity rates associated with circulating V... by singemonkey on Saturday September 19, 2020 @11:39AM (#24528160)
I mean, black and dark skin colour are overlapping sets, but the word black doesn't define everyone with dark(er) skin.

If you mean darker skin (darker than what???) then use that term.

Accuracy is important.