News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by cjoelrun on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @05:46PM (#24413855)
Isn't a better analogy that car dealerships deserve revenue for selling Toyota's cars? Running an app store and providing a safe platform for users isn't free right?
Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by stale2002 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @02:43AM (#24417977)
> Isn't a better analogy that car dealerships deserve revenue for selling Toyota's cars?

That depends. Is the car dealership making it impossible for me, as a buyer, to buy from different car dealerships, and forcing me to only buy it from them?

That would be a more similar analogy.

Epic would likely not have any problem at all, if it was possible to easily install the epic app store on the iPhone. But its not. Because Apple makes it almost impossible for competitors to install other app stores on the iPhone.

Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by DonaldPShimoda on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @02:53AM (#24418039)
Uhhh well isn't it more like Tesla? There are no Tesla dealerships in the traditional sense — only Tesla-owned sales locations. You can't buy a new Tesla from any local dealership; you can only get them directly from Tesla's stores.

You can switch to Android, and in fact Android holds the global majority of smartphone users (yes yes, iOS is the majority in the US by a small margin).

I think we need to rethink the whole vertical integration thing entirely, instead of trying to reason about vertically integrated platforms in terms of non-vertically-integrated platforms. It doesn't seem to work.

Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by stale2002 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @03:29AM (#24418293)
> You can't buy a new Tesla from any local dealership; you can only get them directly from Tesla's stores.

No, not really. I am pretty sure that it is perfectly legal for other people to buy and then resell teslas.

I do not believe that Tesla is suing people who resell Teslas.

> the global majority of smartphone users

In the USA, the Iphone has about 50% of the smart phone market. And when it comes to US anti-trust law, thats all that matters.

Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by DonaldPShimoda on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @11:21AM (#24422000)
> I am pretty sure that it is perfectly legal for other people to buy and then resell teslas.

We're not talking about reselling — we're talking about people selling brand-new product. Most people don't buy a Toyota new from Toyota directly; they go to a local Toyota dealership. But you can't buy a new Tesla through a dealership, because Tesla doesn't allow it. You can only buy a new Tesla through Tesla directly.

> In the USA, the Iphone has about 50% of the smart phone market. And when it comes to US anti-trust law, thats all that matters.

You missed my point. I was saying that Android is a viable alternative to iOS, as shown by the fact that most people in the world (and many people in the US) use Android instead of iOS. If the policies of iOS are not to your liking, you can choose to not support the platform.

Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by stale2002 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @03:41PM (#24425037)
> we're talking about people selling brand-new product.

And tesla does not prevent someone from buying a Tesla that is brand new, and selling it.

> because Tesla doesn't allow it.

False. it would be perfectly legal to immediately sell a new tesla that you just purchased. That would be a brand new tesla.

Thats brand new, that would be no different than buying from tesla.

> I was saying that Android is a viable alternative to iOS,

Apple has ~50% of the market share in the US. Anti trust law does not require a literal, singular monopoly, in order for certain anti-competitive behavior to be illegal. Instead, 50% of the market, is within the realm of when certain behavior can become illegal.

> If the policies of iOS are not to your liking

If the policies are anti-competitive, then Apple can be sued for having illegal policies, due to their market share. 50% of the market, is wihin the realm where anti-competitive practices become illegal.

Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by bosswipe on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @12:43AM (#24417205)
Running the only app store and banning all others is less than free, it makes them piles of money in many ways.
Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by bawolff on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @02:59AM (#24418092)
Having positive net profit is not the same thing as having no costs or negative costs.
Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by KindOne on Tuesday September 08, 2020 @06:03PM (#24414064)
Car dealership analogy is flawed.

In some states its illegal for the car manufacturer to directly sale to the consumer, they have to go through car dealerships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by joshuaellinger on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @02:11AM (#24417779)
The dealership model comes from the abuses by the OEMs during the first part of the 1930s. They would sell you cars and then charge a ton for repairs and lock you in to only getting repairs from them.

The local dealerships are small businesses incorporated in the states so they can be subject to more political pressure and local control.

It has been eroded over the years but originally the dealerships protected consumers from the sort of bad behavior you see from Telsa and Apple.

Not that I love the dealership model but there is real competition at the local level on car repair in a way that there doesn't appear to be with Telsa.

Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by zaksoup on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @01:43AM (#24417605)
Honestly, I think this makes it an even better analogy! Apple is exactly like the dealership groups suing Tesla to prevent them from selling directly to consumers.
Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by gazarullz on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @02:19AM (#24417826)
Not really, Tesla hasn’t placed their cars in dealerships for years bound by a contract, and all of a sudden decided that dealerships don’t deserve the margin the same Tesla would have been bound to pay through the above contract terms.
Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by Google234 on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @01:14AM (#24417384)
A grocery store would be a fine alternative.
Re:Apple countersues Epic, seeks punitive damages by mgoetzke on Wednesday September 09, 2020 @06:43AM (#24419593)
If they were personally involved in each individual app sale that argument would hold.

Since the extra cost between selling 1 copy and 1 million copies is not the same as between selling 1 car and 1 million cars.