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Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by bonoboTP on Sunday September 06, 2020 @07:39PM (#24395551)
Why couldn't we evolve the ability to digest cellulose directly like cows, instead of going through cows?

My guess: grazing takes extremely long and so we let cows do the boring job of grazing outside all day then we quickly slurp up whe harvested calories in just a few glasses of milk.

Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by readams on Sunday September 06, 2020 @07:42PM (#24395569)
Cows have to go through quite a lot to make it happen, with a multistage digestion process, multiple stomachs, regurgitation and additional chewing of food, the right microbiome. In short it's not an easy trait to just "evolve". Lactose tolerance on the other hand is just retaining a trait into adulthood (lactase production) usually lost after weaning.
Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by restalis on Monday September 07, 2020 @10:24AM (#24399596)
"Cows have to go through quite a lot to make it happen, with a multistage digestion process, multiple stomachs, regurgitation and additional chewing of food, the right microbiome. In short it's not an easy trait to just «evolve»."

The complexity of digestive apparatus found in Bovidae family and other ruminant mammals is just an optimization. Herbivore monogastric mammals like horses consume cellulose too. There even isn't that necessary for the mammal to be (specialized) herbivore in order have the cellulose digesting ability, as pigs clearly demonstrate. Some extensions in our menu limits are always welcomed. Digesting lactose as adults was nice, but digesting cellulose, even if not that pleasant or efficient, would have been even nicer, as when things went historically bad, it would had came in handy if we could literally just run to the forest for more than to just hide.

Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by as-j on Sunday September 06, 2020 @07:44PM (#24395588)
Why wouldn’t we?? Have you seen a cow? :)

An enzyme to break down milk seems to be such an easier adaptation compared to a whole series of stomach, which are basically a series of fermenters.

Having raised goats the size of their rumens to body is pretty amazing.

Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by bonoboTP on Sunday September 06, 2020 @07:50PM (#24395619)
Couldn't we have invented some way of doing all that cow-stomach stuff in a pot? Like cooking, grinding, fermenting etc, similar to how we turn other inedible plant stuff like wheat into yummy stuff like bread?
Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by jaggederest on Sunday September 06, 2020 @08:22PM (#24395757)
You can convert cellulose into glucose but it takes things like this (special cultured bacteria, extremely processed cellulose, and an ultrafilter to remove glucose to drive the reaction): https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/bit.26022080...

Or strong acids and 190°C over a catalyst.

Cellulose is remarkably strong, especially with lignin in the structure too. We're lucky anything can digest it at all.

Which brings me to mycology, probably the best way to extract energy from cellulose for humans. Sterilize, inoculate, keep moist, and harvest a significant percentage of the source material as good carbohydrates and protein.

Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by bluGill on Monday September 07, 2020 @02:04AM (#24396964)
My understanding is cows don't digest cellulose either. They have those stomachs to provide an environment for bacteria that can to live. Cows then digest that bacteria.

Which is digestion of course, but it isn't that cows can do it. Our large intestine does the same thing but it isn't anywhere near big enough to get a significant amount of energy from cellulose.

Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by pvaldes on Monday September 07, 2020 @06:51PM (#24403616)
Seeing cows as bacteria eaters is a challenging but powerful image. Really clever point.
Re:Warrior skeletons reveal Bronze Age Europeans couldn’t dr... by pvaldes on Monday September 07, 2020 @06:48PM (#24403593)
We don't have the right kind of tooth to graze