Re:Tech workers flee Belarus as IT haven takes authoritarian...
by baybal2 on Sunday September 06, 2020 @07:01PM
(#24395328)
> Uhm yeah, but they also have parents, siblings, girlfriends. Probably they might have some properties bought already. So as it may seem really advantageous to be in IT, one might not be able to move to another country just like that...
> And it's naive to say that there's no borders. You have to be qualified for the visa requirements. You also have to renew this visa every year or so. You have to start all over. Of course everything is possible with some effort and money, but i'm tired of seeing this term "no borders for it engineers".
1. Qualification:
1.1 University degree, usually means a Western university degree, or a few top tier ones in your own country. Lots of people from the East choose Western education not because they think so highly of it, but because a Western degree contributes to their visa eligibility.
1.2 Even if you have a Western degree, your troubles don't end there. Eligibility criteria often cover the most trendy topics as usual, but may stumble at something dumb as a requirement for a verbatim match of the degree title: i.e. the most dumb on my memory was "Electronics Engineering" getting a pass, but "Microelectronics Engineering" not, while this very much being the originaly intended criteria. The inviting countries are obviously more than content with the amount of people they can cherry pick with the utmost capriciousness.
1.3 Your usual age, health, crime check, marriage status check, security check (telling them you are not a spy, and not alkayeda)
1.3.1 The last few former may involve waiting for completely idiotic paper on your side of your border. A fake crime check note costs 1000 roubles cash ($20) to get from every cop, but may take few months if you want to get it legally, especially if you are from a far away province.
1.3.1.1 A completely innocent note on the former, like being a witness in a court case, or a traffic ticket will subject you to months of pain, and if some countries 100% denial rate, after being flagged in every international rogue person database.
1.4 Regulatory capture works in immigration too. This is they way Microsoft handwrote much of non-public selection criteria for professional evaluation in BC, Canada to unfairly gain advantage attracting foreign labour who are using MS stack.
2. Life situations:
2.1 Lots of Western countries outright deny family applicants, some on other hand given huge bonus.
2.2 Lots of Western countries use immigration programs to repopulate their dying, depopulating regions. Canada will happily settle any amount of Chinese, Indians, and Africans if they agree to live somewhere in New Brunswick
2.3 Lots of Western countries will never allow you to settle down, or pretend to say they will, but then repeatedly change the goalpost in their immigration programs: Canada, Australia.
2.4 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants older than forties to mid thirties
2.5 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women
2.6 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women with children
2.7 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women who are single
2.8 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women who are not single
2.9 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants with just any health condition
3. Incentives:
3.1 Prime majority of countries don't want any more of their own people, let alone strangers. In such, immigration programs are ran as a token sign to say "hey, we are so International, we are not bigots at all!"
3.2 The minority of countries who are actively soliciting immigration are not much better, and some times worse. They obviously have their own agendas. Very often have an interest to crush their own labour into submission, or serve a political agenda. Less frequently, outright exploitation: Gulf, much of East Asia.
3.3 Incentives often are a carrot on a stick, with this stick being constantly moved forward: you a just 1 month away from a permanent residency, a month passes... wham! now qualify for 1 more year for something else
3.4 Countries providing incentives often do so, when their industries don't do well. You will be moving to a country with an already present oversupply of professionals after a downturn. Some times problems will be structural, i.e. Singapore (negative selection, where best leave, and create more openings for cheaper helloworld webdevs to move it.)
3.4 Accordingly, countries that already do well, rarely invite.
3.5 Wages today vary much in between top employers, not so much localities. Earning post tax $10k USD a month somewhere in China, India, or Vietnam is INCOMPARABLY better deal than in the West.
3.6 Accordingly, top companies in the West are no longer eager to employ foreigners in hopes to get top talent anymore. Why hire them for $10k in USA with its unions, labour rights, sjw storm, when you can hire the same guy in your captive outsourcing centre in every major 3rd world country?
3.7 Moving internationally is still freaking expensive, for a person with an already established life, a move from the depth of a third world country to USA can take anywhere up to $40k. This alone may be one years' profit of that man/woman.
3.8 Following 3.7, top tier professionals have much better odds of further progression at home. I knew like 10 guys in China who worked on $10k+ USD jobs in Googles, Amazons, and others who managed to start their business after a single year savings from such jobs. Now, try opening a business yourself as an immigrant abroad.
3.9 A lot of immigration programs outright state that you are being prohibited from running any enterprise.
3.10 A lot of immigration programs for higher calibre talents wanting to setup their businesses in the country are an outright robbery, like a requirement for 51% local capital, waving your patents to inviting research institution, or specifically waving some of your shareholder rights.
> And it's naive to say that there's no borders. You have to be qualified for the visa requirements. You also have to renew this visa every year or so. You have to start all over. Of course everything is possible with some effort and money, but i'm tired of seeing this term "no borders for it engineers".
1. Qualification:
1.1 University degree, usually means a Western university degree, or a few top tier ones in your own country. Lots of people from the East choose Western education not because they think so highly of it, but because a Western degree contributes to their visa eligibility.
1.2 Even if you have a Western degree, your troubles don't end there. Eligibility criteria often cover the most trendy topics as usual, but may stumble at something dumb as a requirement for a verbatim match of the degree title: i.e. the most dumb on my memory was "Electronics Engineering" getting a pass, but "Microelectronics Engineering" not, while this very much being the originaly intended criteria. The inviting countries are obviously more than content with the amount of people they can cherry pick with the utmost capriciousness.
1.3 Your usual age, health, crime check, marriage status check, security check (telling them you are not a spy, and not alkayeda)
1.3.1 The last few former may involve waiting for completely idiotic paper on your side of your border. A fake crime check note costs 1000 roubles cash ($20) to get from every cop, but may take few months if you want to get it legally, especially if you are from a far away province.
1.3.1.1 A completely innocent note on the former, like being a witness in a court case, or a traffic ticket will subject you to months of pain, and if some countries 100% denial rate, after being flagged in every international rogue person database.
1.4 Regulatory capture works in immigration too. This is they way Microsoft handwrote much of non-public selection criteria for professional evaluation in BC, Canada to unfairly gain advantage attracting foreign labour who are using MS stack.
2. Life situations:
2.1 Lots of Western countries outright deny family applicants, some on other hand given huge bonus.
2.2 Lots of Western countries use immigration programs to repopulate their dying, depopulating regions. Canada will happily settle any amount of Chinese, Indians, and Africans if they agree to live somewhere in New Brunswick
2.3 Lots of Western countries will never allow you to settle down, or pretend to say they will, but then repeatedly change the goalpost in their immigration programs: Canada, Australia.
2.4 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants older than forties to mid thirties
2.5 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women
2.6 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women with children
2.7 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women who are single
2.8 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants who are women who are not single
2.9 Lots of Western countries will outright deny applicants with just any health condition
3. Incentives:
3.1 Prime majority of countries don't want any more of their own people, let alone strangers. In such, immigration programs are ran as a token sign to say "hey, we are so International, we are not bigots at all!"
3.2 The minority of countries who are actively soliciting immigration are not much better, and some times worse. They obviously have their own agendas. Very often have an interest to crush their own labour into submission, or serve a political agenda. Less frequently, outright exploitation: Gulf, much of East Asia.
3.3 Incentives often are a carrot on a stick, with this stick being constantly moved forward: you a just 1 month away from a permanent residency, a month passes... wham! now qualify for 1 more year for something else
3.4 Countries providing incentives often do so, when their industries don't do well. You will be moving to a country with an already present oversupply of professionals after a downturn. Some times problems will be structural, i.e. Singapore (negative selection, where best leave, and create more openings for cheaper helloworld webdevs to move it.)
3.4 Accordingly, countries that already do well, rarely invite.
3.5 Wages today vary much in between top employers, not so much localities. Earning post tax $10k USD a month somewhere in China, India, or Vietnam is INCOMPARABLY better deal than in the West.
3.6 Accordingly, top companies in the West are no longer eager to employ foreigners in hopes to get top talent anymore. Why hire them for $10k in USA with its unions, labour rights, sjw storm, when you can hire the same guy in your captive outsourcing centre in every major 3rd world country?
3.7 Moving internationally is still freaking expensive, for a person with an already established life, a move from the depth of a third world country to USA can take anywhere up to $40k. This alone may be one years' profit of that man/woman.
3.8 Following 3.7, top tier professionals have much better odds of further progression at home. I knew like 10 guys in China who worked on $10k+ USD jobs in Googles, Amazons, and others who managed to start their business after a single year savings from such jobs. Now, try opening a business yourself as an immigrant abroad.
3.9 A lot of immigration programs outright state that you are being prohibited from running any enterprise.
3.10 A lot of immigration programs for higher calibre talents wanting to setup their businesses in the country are an outright robbery, like a requirement for 51% local capital, waving your patents to inviting research institution, or specifically waving some of your shareholder rights.