The term for this in English is "third-culture kid."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid

You have quite a negative view of immigration. It works well for many people (while for others it doesn't). Children are quite adaptable. The West is long ago not 100% white and it's only gonna become more pronounced the coming decades. It's mixed. Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immigrants. Those children you describe may have a few rough episodes in their upbringing, but won't they have more rough episodes growing up in Belarus? Some proportion is needed.

>Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades. It's not that different in West Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. Overall it's a good trend for immigrants.

1. The US may become a white-minority country. Europe, not really. Whites are still the majority, and are going to remain so in the distant future. The "Great Replacement" isn't real.

2. Most immigrants to EU countries are from other countries within the EU and white themselves.

3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people.

4. One's ability to integrate and be welcomed depends far more on cultural differences than "looking" different. This is why people from former colonies immigrate to the country that colonized them - lasting vestigial ties and a common language help far more than sticking to people who share one's skin color.

> 3. Many people from outside the EU, even though they're not considered "white" by Westerners, look white from the outside (think of e.g. Arabs) and the differences are purely cultural. Within a few generations you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and "white" people.

The US government officially considers Arab people to be "white". [1] Some Arab Americans disagree with this and believe they are not "white", other Arab Americans identify with the "white" label and want to keep it. The former group have been lobbying the US government to create a separate category, e.g. "Middle Eastern and North African", thus far non-successfully.

Unlike the US, I don't believe most EU countries have a formally adopted definition of "white" (the EU as a whole certainly doesn't.) But, just like in the US, it would be wrong to think there would be a single viewpoint. So the statement that Arab people are "not considered 'white' by Westerners" is a bit dubious – some Westerners no doubt think that, other Westerners actually do think Arab people are "white", yet other Westerners just don't think about the concept "white" or its definition that much at all, or think that "white" is an arbitrary category which should not be used

[1] https://www.census.gov/topics/population/race/about.html

Generally speaking, this question in this form just doesn't come up much in Europe as, "who is white" is much less of a discussion point than in the US, along with all "race" discussions. This is not to say that racism or xenophobia don't exist in Europe, but animosity exists inbetween "whites" as well, and people can hate Arabs without thinking about it in terms of "whites" vs Arabs, and rather thinking about it as "my nation" vs "strangers". Not saying this is much better, just trying to point out that not all parts of the world are obsessed with the American flavor of the concept of race. For one, it's definitely never ever used officially as a concept in many European countries.

In fact, the idea that races even exist is considered outdated and racist. France recently removed the word from their constitution because of that. The same is being debated in Germany.

That doesnt remove the fact that older generation people and many younger too in EU still have "built in firmware" to instantly classify my / foreign culture people. And I doubt this will change for the next generations.

And BLM demonstrations in europe... Sorry, but this is ridiculous. Those are more about protest against goverment ant police than BLM.

"Not saying this is much better, just trying to point out that not all parts of the world are obsessed with the American flavor of the concept of race" We've just witnessed BLM demonstrations all over Europe though. I agree it's less of a thing in Europe, but it definitely exists.

Perhaps some will consider Arabs white (which I doubt), but still many will see them as "other", which is the same thing, especially if they are muslim.

I'm an Australian from a Catholic family of British and Irish descent. My aunt married a Muslim man of ethnic Albanian descent (not actually from Albania, his family come from the Albanian minority in North Macedonia). I've met members of his family on a number of occasions over the years. I never thought of them as "other". I've never really thought about the question of whether he is "white", but his skin has always been paler than my own

Australia and US are historically a mix of immigrants from all the world so things are much different there than in "solid culture" countries where xenofobia is a part of life as a result.

He's probably not super religious or you're super progressive. While I respect and appreciate what you said, many many people still think in terms of us and them.

Most Albanian Muslims are not "super religious". His family is about as Muslim as my own family is Catholic (i.e. not very devoutly), but I believe his family's degree of religiosity is pretty much the norm for Albanian Muslims both in Australia and in Europe.

I am definitely not "super progressive".

We can argue about numbers all night long. It doesn't matter if the U.S / UK is 65% white or 40% white. They're much LESS white than they used to be. That's the trend. If you're a visible minority, you'd probably feel more comfortable in NY / Berlin / London today than you would have 50 years ago, and 40 years from now unless something unexpected happens - you'd be even more comfortable. I wasn't aiming for a discussion about race or if "great replacement" is a thing. Only saying that for immigrants it's way better than it used to be, at least by numbers. your 3rd point: I don't believe most Arabs think of themselves as white or are seen as white (nor do they want to be), especially if they are religious muslims, which many of them are. So the difference between them and the dominant culture still exists, even if we're talking about 3rd generation "immigrants". your 4th point: visible minorities have a harder time. It's enough that 1% of the population is racist (it's usually way more), for them to have a sense of being discriminated against. Your colonies example is hit and miss, are French Algerians all perfectly integrated?

Given that Europeans (outside the UK) never have to officially pick a race on paperwork, probably many Arabs haven't given much thought to whether they are "white" and if not then what. You can't apply the American concept of whiteness all over the world. Their skin shades range over a large spectrum and is similar to other Mediterranean people's, like Greeks and southern Italians and Spaniards. Are tan skinned Sicilians white? Who cares, the concept doesn't work the same way in Europe as in the US.

> I don't believe most Arabs think of themselves as white or are seen as white (nor do they want to be), especially if they are religious muslims

As far as I know the religion has no effect on your skin color.

being white is not only about skin colour. many jews look white but they certainly don't feel white.

I suspect that outside the US, most Jews rarely if ever think about whether they are "white", much less about whether they feel "white"

US culture is very focused on racial categories – who is and isn't "white". Most other Western cultures are not – European cultures, Australia, etc

I think in Israel, people think about who is Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrahi, Beta Israel, Arab/Palestinian, Druze, Secular vs Religious Zionist vs Haredi, etc, not about whether or not they or others are "white". The question of "who is white" is very American, not one that has a lot of relevance for Israeli society

They probably use some word that differentiates them from everyone else - be it White, Christians, Dutch, Goyim or whatever. In Israel Ashkenazi heavily correlated with appearing "White" btw, and the word White is used when you want to say privileged. So I wouldn't say skin colour isn't a thing there.

> Whites will become the minority in U.S and the UK in the coming decades

Regarding the US, that's a bit of a misleading statement. US Census Bureau projections have "white" people as a majority in the US until 2060, which is as far out as their projections go [1].

The claim that "whites" are going to become a minority soon is arrived at by redefining "white" to exclude white-identified Hispanic people. Indeed, "non-Hispanic whites" are projected to become a minority in the US by 2045. But "whites" overall are not going to become a minority in the foreseeable future.

In 2060, the US Census Bureau projects the US will be 68% white-identified (white-identified Hispanic people included). By comparison, their actual estimates for 2016 are that the US was 76% white-identified (again, Hispanic people included). Although their projections don't go out that far, it seems likely the US will still have a white-identified majority at the start of the next century.

[1] https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/popproj/tables/2017...

> The claim that "whites" are going to become a minority soon is arrived at by redefining "white" to exclude white-identified Hispanic people.

You can look at the numbers in your chart and see that basically all of the U.S. Hispanic population is found under this "white" category, 55 million Hispanics. Total Hispanic population in U.S. is at most a few million more. 90%+ of all U.S. Hispanics feel like they are part of a "white" majority? You must be joking.

So I don't think that "white identified majority" in the census numbers means what you think it does. The vast majority of Hispanics in it fully realize and are made to feel like they are part of a minority in the U.S.

"White" in the US Census means someone who ticked the "White" box on the census form. A "White Hispanic" is someone who chooses to tick both the "White" box and the "Hispanic" box. Anyone can tick any box they like, out of the boxes available (and if they don't agree with the choice of boxes, they can write in whatever they like, and the Census Bureau will make its best effort to shoehorn their written response into its categories, or just put them in the "Other" bucket if it can't work it out). If they don't view themselves as "White", why are they putting themselves down as that on the Census?

> 90%+ of all U.S. Hispanics feel like they are part of a white majority?

I feel very hesitant in speculating about the feelings of tens of millions of people whom I don't know–and who of course are not all going to think or feel the same way, but who are going to have a very diverse range of feelings and opinions. Rather than speculating about their feelings, why not just go by what they voluntarily choose to put on their US Census forms?

> The vast majority of Hispanics in it fully realize and are made to feel like they are part of a minority in the U.S.

There are white minorities, so identifying as "white" doesn't necessarily make white-identified Hispanics non-minority. If an (ethnic majority) German or Russian or Finn moves to New York City, they are going to be an immigrant minority in their new home, but they and everyone else will see them as "white". A European-descended person who moves to New York City from Buenos Aires has Spanish as their native language instead of German or Russian or Finnish, but why would their experience be fundamentally different? The Spanish-speaking immigrant will be officially classified as "Hispanic", the German/Russian/Finnish-speaking immigrants wouldn't be, but they are all equally white ethnic minorities.

I'm talking about the experience of being a visible minority in a white country (or for that matter, a homogenous society). I'm just saying - the U.S isn't particularly white and it will only get more pronounced with time. Let's leave all the race discussions aside.

We can talk about the problematic experiences of immigrant minorities without bringing race into it. For example, my friend's father moved from Uruguay to Australia in the 1970s, and my friend told me his dad was teased at work for his accent and gaps in knowledge of English. Like most Uruguayans, he is of European descent, so arguably just as "white" as the English-speaking Australians who were teasing him were.

You chose to bring race into the discussion, when one can make the same point without any reference to race.

Absolutely right. Yet visible minorities usually have it worse. Your friend could at least go to the supermarket without getting stares.

I agree in principle, although exactly who counts as a "visible minority" is a bit of a complex question.

In Sydney, Australia, a woman wearing a niqab is still a rare sight, and she is likely to get starred at, a lot–even other Muslims are going to stare at her. Women wearing hijabs are a far more common sight, so they will get starred at a lot less, although I'm sure they will report being starred at sometimes too. But, a lot of Muslim women don't wear any head covering – like the women in my uncle's family – indeed, in Albanian Muslim culture, women rarely cover their heads, and a woman who starts wearing a hijab is likely to be suspected of religious fundamentalism, which is viewed about as negatively in their culture as in my own. Should my uncle's family be considered a "visible minority" then?

Sydney is over 20% Asian (including East Asian, Southeast Asian, and South Asian people in that term)–Asian Australians are a minority, and obviously a visible one–but do Asian people get starred at in Sydney solely on account of their race? You usually stare at the unusual, but in a city which is over 20% Asian, there is nothing unusual about seeing a Chinese/Indian/Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese/Filipino/etc person, you see them every day, you count them among your friends, classmates, coworkers, neighbours, etc.

I remember one time I ventured with a Finnish colleague to a working class bar in Bangalore, and we got a lot of stares there, because nobody was expecting to see people like us in such an establishment – by contrast, in the airport, hotel, offices, shopping centres, tourist sites, etc, nobody starred at us, because Indians are used to encountering foreigners in those places.

So we basically have no argument. All I was saying was that as the West is demographically changing, visible minorities will have an easier time. Your examples just demonstrate my point. Maybe in 60 years the whole notion of visible minority won't even exist in the West. Now all that is just demographics. If some crazy fascist leader rises to power, which doesn't seem so far fetched nowadays, minorities may suffer again.

Right, as I said, I never had a disagreement with your fundamental point, I just think your way of putting it was flawed

People in Belarous are white and their children can very easily blend in most places in the EU.

That's an extremely american response. I guarantee you someone from Belarus would pretty much never be seen as a native Pole unless they spoke flawless Polish (no accent at all).

As if one's ability to blend depended on one's skin color alone, and that wasn't trumped by culture and language.

The next gen can blend in very easily, if they go to kindergarten and school there. They will grow up bilingual and only use the original language at home, and may not even pass on the language to the 3rd generation (because it's seen as a useless extra burden and the 3rd gen can talk to their grandparents - the 1st gen - in the new language). Happens all the time in Europe.