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Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by IgorPartola on Saturday September 05, 2020 @10:10AM (#24383645)
I will say that half of these complaints are not valid. For example: Snap store navigation sucks? apt has no navigation at all. Chromium is a snap app? Compile from scratch or add an alternative apt repo.

The only real complaint I see here is that automatic updates don’t allow you to control them. That is a real shame but also isn’t inherent in the design of snaps so could be fixed.

Part of the problem is that making .deb packages is an arcane art. I wish it wasn’t. And dependency hell of “well this version of the distro comes with libxxx 1.1 and the other one has 1.0.7 and now I need to build multiple versions of the package just to make it work for 20.04 and 18.04” does suck.

I do love Debian as a platform and I don’t use snap, but I also use macOS as my desktop OS and guess how Chrome is packaged and installed there?

Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by httpsterio on Saturday September 05, 2020 @10:16AM (#24383698)
What I hate about snap is that it hijacks apt installs on Ubuntu. On WSL snap is not supported and when I tried to apt install Chrome, the install fails because it attempts to install it with snap.

If I had a visual way of installing snaps with the Ubuntu app store, I would use it no prob but adding 3rd party repos isn't a viable option for me when I could make do with the default vetted repos. I had to change my CI/CD config where I ran accessibility tests with Chrome's web driver into another distro because Ubuntu broke their previously functioning functions. Building from source would be possible but it's slow and costly to run for every commit.

Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by jula432vdf on Saturday September 05, 2020 @10:47AM (#24383926)
Snaps are SLOW, chromium, and several other apps I tried, they start sloooowly.

It is clearly a NO GO Canonical, you can't ship slower apps (that start in 3-5 seconds), that out of snap (or in Windows), start in less than a seconds.

snapped Chromium takes 3-5 seconds in its first start in a 16GB ram, corei 5, ssd based machine. WHAT?

In the same hardware the .deb Chromium takes maybe half a second to load and be fully responsive.

The occurs with LOTS of software, and yeah, the start time of an app IS a thing.

If something takes more than half a second to start, and you know it is A LOT faster, you end up pissed off,

What have they done with MY hardware and why?

If Canonical start to annoy me with many more packages forced to snap like chromium, I'll be jumping to whatever distro lets me start MY apps in less than a second, as it is usual in 2020.

And if this unfinished, unpollished crap starts to show off in Ubuntu server in its current sorry state, I cannot express how fast I will be ditching LTS for Debian or anything "not snapped".

You NEED to make this thing to start A LOT FASTER,

and stop making "end user assumptions" about what you could mess up behind scenes in the system (yeah, you could end stomping actually useful things like sleeping in notebooks).

Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by IgorPartola on Sunday September 06, 2020 @04:54PM (#24394599)
This seems like a legit problem. Hopefully one that can be easily solved, but thank you for pointing it out.
Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by michaelmrose on Saturday September 05, 2020 @05:28PM (#24386979)
> apt has no navigation at all

There are multiple gui frontends for apt. Are we disingenuously pretending this isn't so?

> Compile from scratch

On a lot of laptops this would be 24 hours of straight building which would have to be redone when underlying libraries changed. This would further be non obvious until after an update your browser didn't open. Furthermore the setup for building it would be apt pun intended to be at least slightly complicated and errors caused by lack of say the needed dev packages would be non obvious and confusing to regular users. Pretending this is a reasonable alternative is of dubious value.

The browser is the single most important application on most users computer. Syncing it by itself and the users profile, settings, bookmarks, and passwords restores much of what the user expects from their computer. Providing no obvious way to install it without learning about ppas and wading through tons of out of date ppas to figure out the correct one that works with your system is non obvious, non discoverable and frustrating. Virtually all new users will end up with the snap version and thinking linux is just slow.

>guess how Chrome is packaged and installed there

Methodologies for packaging have different attributes and downsides Snap != Mac OS

Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by IgorPartola on Sunday September 06, 2020 @04:53PM (#24394581)
There are multiple third party GUIs for apt. None of them provide the App Store type experience and ones that do aren’t exactly great or easy to use.

I never said to recompile everything, just specific things. You don’t need to rebuild your kernel, libc, compiler, and so on to compile Chromium.

Snap is not the same as macOS apps. But macOS apps are self-contained statically linked apps most of which don’t hook into centralized updating services. Yet macOS is more usable than Ubuntu (I say this as someone who desperately wishes the reverse was true). macOS apps have more in common with snap apps than with dynamically linked .deb packages.

Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by michaelmrose on Friday September 11, 2020 @04:35PM (#24447074)
I'm not even sure what you mean by app store experience honestly. The google play store is such a worthless piece of garbage with a garbage search experience that I have to use googles web search, which actually works, to find software to install via google play.

Conversely I have used a variety of app store interfaces on various linux distros that were quite usable and pleasant with search functions that actually worked.

Here for example is a relatively recent video showing installing software via the Linux Mint Software GUI

https://youtu.be/cNt_D2GyApk?t=218

Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by IshKebab on Saturday September 05, 2020 @12:31PM (#24384805)
Compiling Chromium from scratch is clearly not a reasonable thing to suggest that most people do.
Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by IgorPartola on Sunday September 06, 2020 @04:48PM (#24394540)
Right. Most people don’t care how it’s installed or know what apt or snap is. Those that do can find easy work-arounds like compiling from scratch.
Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by ashtonkem on Saturday September 05, 2020 @01:04PM (#24385070)
The point of distros like Ubuntu is to avoid having to compile major programs from scratch. If I wanted to compile chromium to get bleeding edge support, why even use Ubuntu?
Re:Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it by IgorPartola on Sunday September 06, 2020 @04:48PM (#24394546)
Exactly. If you don’t care about stuff like that, why do you care about .deb vs snap?