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Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by gridlockd on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @06:09AM (#24351694)
> School should start at a reasonable time. In my opinion, 8AM is too early. Kids that live far away have to wake up at 6AM, which is not a normal time judging by when kids wake up during summer break (9-10AM).

They wake up that late because they're staying up late. They should be waking up when the sun tells them to, and go to sleep when their body tells them to, which doesn't happen because they're surrounded by light that messes up their circadian rhythm. This has a huge impact on things like anxiety.

Consequently, there can't be one time that is optimal. Why do we work the hours that we do, year round? It doesn't make sense biologically, it's an artifact of industrialization.

Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by montebicyclelo on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @06:18AM (#24351731)
https://www.washington.edu/news/2018/12/12/high-school-start...

> “Research to date has shown that the circadian rhythms of adolescents are simply fundamentally different from those of adults and children,” said lead author Gideon Dunster, a UW doctoral student in biology.

> “All of the studies of adolescent sleep patterns in the United States are showing that the time at which teens generally fall asleep is biologically determined — but the time at which they wake up is socially determined,” said Dunster. “This has severe consequences for health and well-being, because disrupted circadian rhythms can adversely affect digestion, heart rate, body temperature, immune system function, attention span and mental health.”

Seen similar information from other sources, but this came up first after a quick search. Of course screen light probably makes the problem worse, but there do seem to be significant biological factors.

Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by gridlockd on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @06:43AM (#24351885)
There's a natural "bedtime shift" of 1-3h in adolescence, that doesn't mean it's natural for them to still be asleep when the sun is up.

The one thing that disrupts the circadian rhythm dramatically is light. This is well-established and also mentioned in the article you linked.

Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by saagarjha on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @05:14PM (#24358218)
1-3h takes you from one side of 7AM to the other, which is generally when the sun rises around here.
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Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by Nextgrid on Wednesday September 02, 2020 @12:31PM (#24354862)
Maybe the reason they're playing Fortnite until 2AM is because they have no other time to play it because ~8 hours of their day are being absorbed by a majority of dubious-value bullshit that also comes with homework (and some people are even defending the latter)?
Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by gridlockd on Thursday September 03, 2020 @04:11AM (#24361843)
If you want to fix the world, start at home. If playing Fortnite is worth messing up your biological clock, causing you fatigue, anxiety and maybe even depression, perhaps you need to get your priorities straight first.
Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by Nextgrid on Thursday September 03, 2020 @07:34AM (#24362941)
My point is that maybe the problem isn't Fortnite but the fact that the system is giving these kids way too much work (when you factor in transport if they happen to live far from the school this can add another hour or two, but unlike in a full-time job they can't just switch to a closer school like they could with a job) and they don't have enough time for socializing/entertainment?
Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by gridlockd on Thursday September 03, 2020 @08:16AM (#24363220)
Fair enough, but what happens if you shift personal responsibility to some abstract concept like "the system"? Nothing. The system does not care about you, it takes no responsibility, it just is. If it changes at all, it will do so at a glacial pace, because there's a lot of interest groups involved. The school system is a bureaucracy, it's in the business of maintaining problems, not solve them.
Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by Nextgrid on Friday September 04, 2020 @04:54AM (#24373089)
Why are we talking about personal responsibility or trying to put the fault on the kids? We're putting kids in a prison-like system with 8+ hours of forced labor and then we're surprised that they're doing unhealthy long-term choices when it comes to managing whatever little time they have left. Maybe we should not be putting them in a prison and address the root cause of the problem instead of criticizing how they cope with it?
Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by gridlockd on Friday September 04, 2020 @12:22PM (#24376350)
First, I'll have you know that your choice of words is ridiculous and may trigger severe eye-rolling in those who aren't quite as out of touch as you are.

Secondly, I probably don't disagree all that much on the (lack of) merits of the public school systems. Having said that, you can live a life within that system and not make it actively worse for yourself, no matter who is at fault. That's personal responsibility.

Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by Nextgrid on Friday September 04, 2020 @02:10PM (#24377431)
I am indeed using very strong words to try and drive my point home but it doesn't seem like it's working - maybe you just had a very different experience of school and got significant value out of it which made the inconvenience look worthwhile to you?

Regardless of our opinions, I think the goal of this entire thread is to discuss the shortcomings of the system and how we can make it better and not just blame the kids for not coping well with it?

Re:Teens' anxiety levels dropped during pandemic, study finds by gridlockd on Friday September 04, 2020 @04:32PM (#24378618)
I think the goal of this thread is to scold me for "blaming the victim", which is unjustified. I'm not blaming anyone for being fed up with school, I certainly was fed up with it myself.

The point is that no matter how injust "the system" is, no matter who is to blame for your predicament, there's always a way for you to make your situation worse still.

If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.