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Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 27, 2020 @04:20PM (#24298184)
You don't get to ignore states rights just because they aren't particularly popular.

Also, look into "regulatory capture". Independent bodies tend toward becoming very cosy with those they're supposed to be monitoring.

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by kanox on Thursday August 27, 2020 @04:30PM (#24298286)
> You don't get to ignore states rights just because they aren't particularly popular.

Wouldn't it be possible to define all police misconduct a federal crime?

> Also, look into "regulatory capture". Independent bodies tend toward becoming very cosy with those they're supposed to be monitoring.

This happens to regulations of commercial activity because industry has a lot of incentive to lobby the regulators. Local police departments don't have much resources to lobby government agencies.

At the very least investigations performed by a external party would be less partial than those performed locally.

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by BurningFrog on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:12PM (#24298716)
Regulatory capture is about a lot more than lobbying.

Then again, I don't know that thinking of prosecutors are regulators is a good framing.

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:00PM (#24298612)
> Wouldn't it be possible to define all police misconduct a federal crime?

IANAL. Maybe.

> Local police departments don't have much resources to lobby government agencies.

The problem isn't just police departments. I think the problem is more the police unions. Could they work together to have enough resources? I suspect so.

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by cgrealy on Thursday August 27, 2020 @04:26PM (#24298249)
Non American here. The only time I ever hear about "states rights" is in relation to racism or misogyny.

Are there actually valid useful reasons for the concept or is it time to ask what purpose they serve?

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by DrScump on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:54AM (#24303125)
There's no such thing as "states' rights". States, like all levels of government, have no rights.

Government has powers, not rights, and only those powers granted it by Federal/State constitutions.

People sometimes misstate the concept of limited Federal powers as "states' rights", but the term generally reflects ignorance.

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 27, 2020 @04:55PM (#24298568)
The last two times I heard about states rights were:

- Trump wanted to run the Covid response. The states told him to get lost. (Was that good or bad? True, the Covid response has been disjointed, even incoherent. Would it have been more coherent if Trump ran it? Or less?)

- Trump wanted to send federal law enforcement into cities to control rioting. The cities told him no. (There were some federal agents in Portland against the will of the city; the legal scope of their activity was protecting federal property.)

The deal is that we have a limited federal government. They don't get all the power. They get the power the constitution says they get. The states (or the people) get the rest. And they're pretty touchy about protecting that power.

Is it useful? It is if you want to keep having a limited federal government. Arguably, we need (and needed) far more than we have had.

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by chillwaves on Thursday August 27, 2020 @07:39PM (#24299927)
Can you give me a citation about the Trump Covid response? That does not match the reality I experienced.
Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 27, 2020 @08:14PM (#24300136)
Not from the top of my head. But I seem to recall Trump saying that we're going to require shutting down, or require masks (don't recall the details), and various governors telling Trump that no, we're not going to, and you can't make us.
Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by paledot on Thursday August 27, 2020 @10:41PM (#24300882)
A bit the opposite. Trump has consistently downplayed the threat, and the (blue) states have taken it seriously and saved lives. Fortunately it's well within their rights to be more restrictive than the federal government, just like it's within California's rights to have more restrictive emissions laws than the fed. But that's a different argument.
Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by davidivadavid on Thursday August 27, 2020 @07:49PM (#24299990)
Decentralization.
Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by rbecker on Thursday August 27, 2020 @07:02PM (#24299643)
Sanctuary cities are also a case of states rights. They're not called such, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a local authority telling the federal authority to get lost.
Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by Nasrudith on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:31PM (#24298933)
States don't have rights - people do. A government having rights is nonsensical - they have powers instead and limitations for damn good reason.
Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by rbecker on Thursday August 27, 2020 @07:00PM (#24299623)
That's arguing semantics - whether you call it rights or powers makes little difference.

When people elect a government, that government passes a law, and some above-government institution overrules that law, you don't think that affects the rights of people? You could argue that the people agreed to that when their state joined some union, but if that union exceeds the authorization that was initially agreed to, it violates states rights, and by proxy people's rights.

Re:White supremacists and militias have infiltrated police a... by notacoward on Thursday August 27, 2020 @08:15PM (#24300145)
> Independent bodies tend toward becoming very cosy with those they're supposed to be monitoring.

More so than bodies which never pretended to be independent in the first place? IOW what we have now? Seems like you're making the perfect the enemy of the good here.