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Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by Afforess on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:33PM (#24296183)
>Economists are as effective as astrologists at predicting the future.

[citation needed]

>I see this assured economic doom repeated so much without being questioned as anything but guaranteed I wonder where this incredible confidence is coming from?

All the stock market gains are from big tech. Any other markets are flat or down. ( https://finviz.com/map.ashx?t=sec&st=ytd )

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by Guzba on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:39PM (#24296269)
Quick Google search, nearly top result. Committing the sin of just reading the headline but man this is not hard to find evidence: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-28/economist...

Or maybe? https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/economists-are-bad-at-p...

"All of the gains are from big tech". All of the gains are always from some companies and all of the losses are always from others. This is just how the pie got sliced 2020. I don't think it has any special meaning we can divine from it?

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by victorfriedrich on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:49PM (#24297162)
The market cap of the five largest companies as share of the S&P 500 hasn't been higher in more than four decades.[1]

The way the pie is sliced currently isn't really an indicator of stability.

[1]: https://www.isabelnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Market-...

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by tylerhou on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:49PM (#24296408)
Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by Fellshard on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:45PM (#24296339)
Economics isn't a sliced pie like that.
Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by Guzba on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:47PM (#24296369)
I just used that as an expression, no special meaning intended.
Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by the-dude on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:54PM (#24296457)
The stock market gains are because TINA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative ).

It doesn't really matter that it is big tech, if the ROI would have been highest in Agri, it would be those stocks.

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by coliveira on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:12PM (#24296685)
Exactly. The Fed has pumped trillions of dollars in an economy that is stuck, nothing new is being done except for tech. No wonder this money has to flow into tech stocks, and I tell you that it won't stop until something changes in the economic scenario, or the Fed for some reason decides to stop its super-easy-money policy.
Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by maerF0x0 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:26PM (#24296859)
I'd love to see a multi-currency valuation of the S&P 500 over the next few years.

Part of the issue of saying the Market is "up" is that we keep changing the size of the unit.

Is the market worth more now in Yen, Indian Rupees etc? Or are people just willing to part with more USD (that asset specifically) for the underlying asset (the stock)?

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by danhak on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:31PM (#24296938)
> Is the market worth more now in Yen, Indian Rupees etc? Or are people just willing to part with more USD (that asset specifically) for the underlying asset (the stock)?

Those are...pretty easy questions to answer. The dollar is down about 10% since its March high compared to a basket of other major currencies: https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/dxy

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by maerF0x0 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:51PM (#24297181)
Can you help me figure out the maths on that. So how much of the stock gain is from currency devaluation (against other currencies) and how much is due to appreciation (of investors willing to pay more real value) ?

Say .INX was 3250 in Jan and is 3500 now. -> 7.7% increase. But currency has lost about 10% of its underlying value.

If something loses 1/10th of it's value we expect people to pay 11% (1/.9) more of that currency. So the 7.7% increase in stock market is actually a 3.3% decrease in a mixed currency basket?

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by Rury on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:12PM (#24299271)
Currency devaluation doesn't just happen against other currencies. It also happens against particular goods/assets (another currency is just another good/asset). If I have $10 and 10 goods, and suddenly have $1000 and still 10 goods, each good should come to cost 100x more. Or to say it backwards, the $ becomes worth 100x less...

To bring CPI into this, the reason we don't see common inflation metrics such as food/gasoline spike, whereas assets suck as stocks do, is more a matter of supply/demand for the corresponding goods than anything else.

Said differently: if food was the only good there was, and we suddenly doubled the money supply, food would in time come to cost double.

However the market consists of many more things than what CPI looks at (which is why it's a bad measure of inflation). Stocks being one of such things. Real estate another. Right now, demand for stocks is higher than demand for food, and given the more money available, naturally we see stock prices rise, but food/gas prices staying relatively the same...

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by woobar on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:46PM (#24299059)
GP mentioned 10% drop from the _March_ highs, not from the January. S&P 500 grew 50%+ since March lows.
Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by beefman on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:54PM (#24296463)
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2016/01/09/a...

"The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable," John Kenneth Galbraith, an irreverent economist, once said. ... Over the period [1999-2014] there were 220 instances in which an economy grew in one year before shrinking in the next. In its April forecasts the IMF never once foresaw the contraction looming in the next year. Even in October of the year in question, the IMF predicted that a recession had begun only half the time. To be fair, an average-growth prediction also misses 100% of recessions. One model does better, though. Our random-number generator correctly forecast the start of a recession 18% of the time."

Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by polote on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:41PM (#24296286)
Re:We'll be stuck in this recession for years, economists say by skybrian on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:16PM (#24296731)
Theoretically, predicting what the economy will do depends on also predicting most other major events. For example, to know in advance how the economy would do in 2020, you would have had to predict the pandemic. You also need to predict wars, natural disasters, the weather (snowstorms affect the economy), elections, and which new laws will pass for things like stimulus bills.

Sure, sometimes it averages out. But often it's the opposite, more like catastrophic cancellation. The outcome of a close election is inherently unpredictable because large opposing forces mostly cancel out.

It's odd how, whenever we talk about what will happen next year, we forget how we were blindsided this year.