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Re:Scrollbar Blindness by munchbunny on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:02PM (#24295746)
I openly admit it these days. If I had a VCR today I'd be the one struggling to figure out how to record something with it, even though as a kid I loved that stuff. And I'm only in my 30's. It's not really about whether I'm able to figure it out (if 8 year old me could figure it out, 30+ year old should be able to as well), it's about whether I have the patience for a badly designed UI.

One of the common responses I see when I complain about a bad UI is someone saying "no it's easy you just do ____". It's frustrating because that's not the point - the point is that I had to do research to find the answer!

There are cases, especially with specialized tools for complex tasks, where you are expected to spend time learning how to use the tool effectively. Photoshop is a great example. Vim is a great example. Figuring out stupid stuff like whether that grayish light blue vs dark gray fill on the checkbox means "enabled" or "disabled" is not an example.

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by Viliam1234 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @03:32PM (#24297671)
I am sometimes amazed how complicated UI can someone create with e.g. four arrows and two extra buttons.

Like, I would naively assume that the arrows would move your selection up, down, left, right, and one of the extra buttons would be "select/confirm" and the other would be "escape". But no, that would be too easy. Depending on exact position in the menu, sometimes the right arrow, sometimes the first extra button, and sometimes the second extra button selects the highlighted thing. Sometimes up and down arrows increase the selected thing (e.g. volume, brightness) and you need to press one of the extra buttons to stop doing it. Sometimes one of those extra buttons acts as a hotkey that will switch you to a completely different menu, so it will take five minutes to navigate back.

Then sometimes a confirmation windows opens, with two buttons "yes" and "no", one of them is pink and another is light blue, if you press any of the four arrows, the colors switch, and you are free to make your guess whether pressing the extra button will confirm the pink option, confirm the light blue option, take you to a completely different place, or turn off the menu.

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by projektfu on Thursday August 27, 2020 @03:51PM (#24297870)
Monitor buttons are particularly awesome. Often you can't even see what you're pressing because it's behind the bezel or just an unmarked capsense location, and then whether it's up, down, increase, decrease, forward, back, reset, etc. is all different for each page of settings.

Bonus points: turn the monitor to portrait mode and do it sideways.

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by majewsky on Friday August 28, 2020 @10:04AM (#24304957)
Both monitors on my desk have a single button on the back side of the bottom right corner. The button can be pressed or pushed in each of the four cardinal directions (left, up, right, bottom). It's actually really nice. Since it's only one physical button, there's never any guessing which button you're on. And once you know the menu structure, common tasks can be done completely blind. (For example, I know that switching between input sources is press-left-press. I can do that without even looking at the screen.)
Re:Scrollbar Blindness by projektfu on Saturday August 29, 2020 @09:15AM (#24315852)
What model?
Re:Scrollbar Blindness by majewsky on Tuesday September 01, 2020 @05:34AM (#24339961)
Samsung U28E590D and Philips BDM4065UC.
Re:Scrollbar Blindness by bmitc on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:02PM (#24298629)
> If I had a VCR today I'd be the one struggling to figure out how to record something with it

That's a little hard to believe. Nothing is hidden on a VCR. There's input connections, a tape, and a big record button. At most there is an additional source button to choose the input source. It's all there, in the open, and not hidden.

Today's interface design is really all over the place. There's just too much stuff hidden and inconsistent. The source of this is our ever increasing reliance on software. If one thinks of writing software as both storing knowledge and communicating with people, it makes sense why software experiences are so bad. Communication and knowledge transfer are in general difficult processes, and now we've automated them at scale but hurried and botched them. Something even more is lost in translation. When we use a software-based product, we're experiencing all the stored miscommunication embedded in the device.

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by munchbunny on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:35PM (#24299457)
Nothing is hidden on a VCR. There's input connections, a tape, and a big record button. At most there is an additional source button to choose the input source. It's all there, in the open, and not hidden.

Some VCR’s had a timed recording setting. More commonly, and you see this on cars before they got touchscreens, there were settings and options that you had to navigate to by hitting a specific sequence of buttons to get to the appropriate menu.

The core loop was generally fine. It was when you needed anything else that suddenly you needed the manual.

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by underwater on Thursday August 27, 2020 @11:17PM (#24301048)
My new air conditioner control panel suffers from this. It has up/down/left/right buttons where it switches between horizontal navigation plus select/deselect or vertical navigation plus select/deselect randomly. Programming a day takes around 30 key presses. And there is no bulk update functionality.
Re:Scrollbar Blindness by esrauch on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:11PM (#24299256)
I recall VCRs having a lot of nonobvious digital controls that involved primitive onscreen HUD that involved arbitrary buttons to navigate. Everyone understood play/stop/record, what was confusing was setting the on-screen time using those same buttons.
Re:Scrollbar Blindness by Nition on Thursday August 27, 2020 @08:38PM (#24300286)
There was often an additional on-screen interface on VCRs for setting up timed recordings, usually with giant white text on a blue background.
Re:Scrollbar Blindness by antod on Thursday August 27, 2020 @11:30PM (#24301103)
That was only on the last generation or so of VCRs. For the first decade or two, programming them was like setting an old digital watch with 2 or 3 buttons and making different digits on the clock flash.
Re:Scrollbar Blindness by Nition on Friday August 28, 2020 @05:01AM (#24302835)
I disagree with "last generation or so", our one from the mid-to-late 80s had it as an option (you could set a single recording in the way you describe, but needed the TV display for multiple recordings). Apparently the Akai VS-2 was the first with an on-screen display on the TV, in 1983.[1]

[1] https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1301&dat=19830424&id=...

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by bregma on Friday August 28, 2020 @07:53AM (#24303777)
> Nothing is hidden on a VCR.

12:00

12:00

12:00

12:00

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by nl on Friday August 28, 2020 @09:12AM (#24304410)
So true.

The other hidden complexity was reception and tuning - so many people had problems getting the antenna pass-through working, and then getting the VCR picture to display on a TV channel (no switchable inputs in those days).

Re:Scrollbar Blindness by CarbyAu on Thursday August 27, 2020 @06:28PM (#24299403)
Maybe it is that same "Older so I lack patience for poor design" but nowadays when I play a game I often - not always - have a web page on my other monitor so I can look up how to do XYZ unnecessarily complicated stupid shit. Crafting recipes are the biggest failures.

Warframe is the THE game I can think of doing this most. Even when I learned how it all worked, I needed a bunch of reference tables/posts so I could grind with maximal efficiency!

Nowadays, if a game has "crafting" I am 90% inclined to skip it.