Obviously there are at least as many reasons to downvote you as the number of downvotes you got, but I don't think adding E would've saved you from any of them, since you'd still be the one preselecting A-D.

Maybe you thought it would be as simple as people replying "B" or "C", but nobody just picked one of the answers and you got a super long reply that must have taken a long time to type out. The effort for a quick vote vs. writing a comment is heavily skewed towards voting.

You got some high-effort replies to your question anyway, so maybe just ignore the low-effort votes.

That's my guess. Also, I think there are some jumps in the severity of things in your examples that probably come off as bad faith.

Your list is not quite as bad as

A. Just helping the Uighurs, but maybe not in the best way.

B. Just killing all the Uighurs.

But I think a lot of people have issue with your list not considering the fact that there may be something between full killing/genocide and only some of them being killed (perhaps the more religious? the imams? those whose blood tests show they'll make a good organ donor?) and the idea of "demographic genocide"; or with your list not mentioning the fact that the brutality may not be policy but that it may be tacitly condoned; or your list not mentioning that it doesn't take obvious destruction of artefacts, buildings, or killing of imams to erase a religion or tradition and that it can happen in more subtle ways.

Many westerners grow up learning about the potential horrors of western imperialism and colonialism, and they are worried about the sinicization of Islam (and everything else).

I realize this comment may come off as rude, but I think that it is a real explanation of the downvotes. It's also important to realize that it's a lot easier for people to vote than to converse, especially when most people know about issues like this from headlines, skimming articles, etc.

I don’t think your comment is rude. It makes sense, even if I don’t agree with people who think the way you describe it. I made a best effort to describe the various possibilities that I think exist.

I just think that it’s silly when so many people condemn China for being unfree, yet at the same time throw away their free society values of encouraging discussions and respecting each others’ opinions, when it comes to discussing China topics.

I'd like to ask, do you pretty much believe your option A? If so, what do you think of the Buzzfeed News investigation and reporting? Also, do you thing the re-education of Uighurs and others is the right thing for the Communist Party to be doing?

I understand you may not want to comment publicly here, so if you want, feel free to email me (my profile has my email).

All of the reporting just indicates buildings exist. I'm not sure what to believe, lots of things are in range given the evidence, but I don't take "look, a building" to mean much of anything.

Some of the buildings are very clearly used as detention centers. They've been confirmed by journalists, for instance. Not all are proven to be camps and just look like they could be. (I don't know why China would need so many guarded prison looking areas with thick concrete walls, but I'm sure someone could come up with a reason.)

I was talking about the other two articles by Buzzfeed. They interviewed quite a few people who were arrested and then released from these centers.

Also, there is no question (meaning China has admitted it) that China has a re-education and de-radicalization program for which they are detaining Uighurs (and others) against their will. It is part of their larger plans to sinicize Islam from what I understand. What are your thoughts on this?

I agree with your facts there, although "sinicize Islam" sounds awfully grand?

In context with Western countries' reactions to militant islam, it's very different, different cultural norms, but it's hard to call it comparatively monstrous.

What if it works? What we're doing in afghanistan clearly isn't working, despite the humanitarian cost..

The phrase Sinicization of Islam is Xi Jinping's, or at least the CCP's. It does sound grand and oppressive, especially when you consider that it is about more than just a considerate plan to minimize the threat of violent sects of Islam and includes stopping Islamic finance, mosque-run schools, religious Arabic-language schools, and more much worse as we've heard reports of (bits of which are reported in the articles). Sure, these traditions may be vectors for some particular type of violent Islamic ideas to spread, but they are also important parts of many's peaceful faith.

Of course, the CCP has never really tried that hard to pretend they don't see religion as a threat. I mean, it really is a threat to the CCP's ultimate power. And if one doesn't have cultural norms respecting a person's right to peacefully practice religion and traditions, then I guess one wouldn't consider forced re-education camps monstrous. But if one did, then I don't think it would matter if it "works". I won't try and justify American wars or reason about their effectiveness in preventing violence.

Religion is a part of daily life for many, many Chinese. It's different, not Abrahamic, more of a syncretic blend of taoist, buddhist and localized icons. Monks and nuns take their roles seriously. Xi's government, in contrast to the communist governments 60 years ago, leverages it in a standard social conservative way rather than being against it on communist grounds. It's all over their propaganda.

Anti-communist talking points from the 1980s never accurately described China, and certainly not in 2020.

Here's my question: you clearly know very little about the place, yet are super invested in it. How do you square that? Why not either spend time learning about this place, or stop caring?

I understand that religion is a part of daily life for many, many Chinese. I do admit that I don't know that much about China except the little I have learned from reading and talking with people. I've been mostly asking about the things that these Buzzfeed articles articulate. I'd like to know more, hence my questions, reading about it, etc. I'm not that much more invested than the average interested person, and I've been somewhat interested in China for quite some time, but haven't had (or made, really) the opportunity to visit.

I have a Christian Chinese friend with whom I've talked about the role of the Chinese government in curtailing the free-expression and practice of religion. The 80's are certainly not the 2020's, but as is obvious to even someone who "clearly knows very little about the place" the CCP still works against religions that it sees as threats to their power. I get that this can be framed as a difference in "cultural norms" and this is something that I'd like to understand more fully.

Short of living in China, do you have any good advice, books or whatnot to read, or whatever that would be good to do/read in order to learn more?

RE: religion, the impression I've gotten is that it's specifically organization that the government sees as a threat. So, without the context of Urumqi riots or bombings, they'd probably default to seeing catholics or certainly falun gong as a bigger threat than disorganized Uyghur muslims. Protestant christians less so, if they knew enough to discriminate.

I don't have any great reading materials for 2020 daily life, there's laowhy86 and serpentza on youtube who I haven't watched much but they've been recommended.

Books: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005MHHREI/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...

Mao, the unknown story, fantastic original research but you've gotta discount for a LOT of bias as the author is clearly still butthurt over the civil war. Not to say that Mao was a nice guy, but if you're refusing to use pinyin in the 21st century, calling Beijing 'Peking', you've got some baggage.

https://www.amazon.com/Concise-History-China-J-Roberts/dp/06...

Longer run of history, makes you realize all of the cultural context that they have which differs from ours and makes conversation impossible at times.

Thanks!

Thank you!

Oh they ironi..

> Xi's government, in contrast to the communist governments 60 years ago, leverages it in a standard social conservative way rather than being against it on communist grounds

This is literally written on a thread about people jailed and tortured because of their religion.

> Why not either spend time learning about this place, or stop caring?

The Chinese government has made it impossible to communicate with the people in that region. How about they let reporters move freely and interview people?

Also, "stop caring*?

It's not ironic, it's standard. Cultural conservatives in the US also dump on islam.