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Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by AndrewBissell on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:09AM (#24290313)
The internet is a massive network created by the military with the objective of surveillance baked in from its earliest origins. The LEO systems being built now will extend that network to every last corner of the globe, and the companies building them will do the bidding of the governments at whose behest they're allowed to function.
Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by salawat on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:28AM (#24290411)
It wasn't surveillance.

It was providing a self healing command and control network capable of surviving a nuclear attack. It evolved into a Internetwork of trusted hosts to facilitate rapid information dissemination. It took a bunch of advertisers to turn it into surveillance nirvana by realizing that you could use http requests and your own portable sensor platform and in-house OS to rake in profit overwhelming.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by pmoriarty on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:53AM (#24290532)
Advertisers might have funded a lot of it and set the direction, but they couldn't have done it without armies of technology folk.

At least early on, the latter had the excuse of lack of foresight regarding the dystopia they were building, but for decades now it's been more than obvious to everyone and most of them are continuing to cobble together their own prisons and ours.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by btilly on Thursday August 27, 2020 @03:16AM (#24290908)
It was providing a self healing command and control network capable of surviving a nuclear attack.

That's a nice myth. But it wasn't so.

As https://www.internetsociety.org/internet/history-internet/br... explains, the idea of packet switching was invented twice. The Internet came out of the invention by Leonard Kleinrock at MIT. Separately Paul Baran and others at RAND had demonstrated that packet switching could be used to build a network to survive a nuclear attack.

Even though the Internet came out of military research, it was not designed to withstand nuclear attack. As can be verified by the fact that the early network had no redundancy, and neither computers nor the network were shielded from the EMP that a nuclear bomb could be expected to emit.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by salawat on Thursday August 27, 2020 @09:01AM (#24293219)
That's cute, but I've got primary sources who indicate otherwise. I'll take the word of someone who at one point maintained a list of every addressed machine on ARPANet and the proto-Internet once it went beyond a strictly DoD effort, over a blatant attempt at trying to rewrite history to fit their own narrative, thank you. It may not have succeeded at being what they set out to make, like most things in life, but it most certainly started out in that vein. The utility as a surveillance facilitator only came much later near the Oughts, particularly after a rather notorious event in mid September when the attempt to utilize the practice of intelligence fusion and total information awareness for law enforcement and national defense purpose got a huge boost in national popular support.

That's not to say there weren't earlier efforts to leverage networks for security purposes. I'm reminded of a tale of connecting FBI branches in the southern U.S. to facilitate case information sharing to close a series of cases involving a multi-state child and human trafficking ring in the Southern U.S. as well. Again though, that wasn't something bearing the character of "Hey! Let's 1984 these disgusting subhumans!" It was more, "Hey, seeing as our entire reason for existence is to work on crimes that cross State boundaries, doesn't it make sense that we should be able to keep the entire organization connected enough so that all our distributed branches can be kept up-to-date on what we've all found?"

Nothing controversial there. At all. Where things started getting controversial is where we started to take Lincoln's "tap the telegraph lines", an extreme wartime measure, and make it matter of fact through the establishment of the NSA/DIA. Where we started seeing the privatized Palantir's pop up, and seeing government agencies exercise or otherwise excuse investigative techniques they could not justifiably engage in themselves through delegation or voluntary action by private organizations.

It's these private businesses building datasets that never should gave existed that have outright corrupted things, and the at the time far more reasonable Third Party Doctrine that have driven things off the rails. Not the Internet itself.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by btilly on Thursday August 27, 2020 @04:02PM (#24297986)
That's cute, but I've got primary sources who indicate otherwise. I'll take the word of someone who at one point maintained a list of every addressed machine on ARPANet and the proto-Internet once it went beyond a strictly DoD effort, over a blatant attempt at trying to rewrite history to fit their own narrative, thank you.

So on the one hand a random internet stranger claims to have known someone important who said something.

On the other hand we have a history written by people including the author of the first paper on packet switching, the program manager at DARPA who authorized the project, the inventor of TCP/IP and so on and so forth.

I'll believe the paper that I cited.

Packet switching can be used to build networks that are resilient in the face of disruptions, whether natural or manmade. That is where the myth of "designed to survive a nuclear war" comes from. But the original Internet was designed using packet switching to allow computers to freely talk to each other without having an insane number of dedicated circuits kept open.

That said, I agree with you that it was not designed for surveillance. But I disagree on the timeline. While the response to 9/11 certainly stepped up the level of surveillance to an insane level, all evidence is that ECHELON had been tapping the Internet long before that.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON for more. Also note that ECHELON predated the internet, and to them it was simply another telecommunications network.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by weruiojkl24 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:21AM (#24290642)
Nah. It took a whole bunch of incompetent users who gave away their integrity for a few likes and pet videos.

Pretty much same thing as complaining about bad leaders when the sheeple putting in the bad votes is the actual problem.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by renewiltord on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:37AM (#24290709)
While you're sitting on the Internet angry about their incompetence they're in bed with their partners laughing at cats.

Who really is the loser here.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by salawat on Thursday August 27, 2020 @09:12AM (#24293320)
Those who don't plaster their personal information also do the same. However, most cannot help but fall for the bait and switch of giving up info they never even knew was collected. Most people aren't even aware of EXIF, the difference between a User and a User-Agent, the multiple layers of attempts by organizations to assign unique identifiers to every entity they interact with, or the fact that society at one point pulled a total 180 on the idea of discretion in business whereby it became okay and commonplace to plaster information about your customers to other entities.

This was a very disjoint cultural shift in from the research I've done, and it was really pushed by only a handful of big names.

Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by ddorian43 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @02:52AM (#24290778)
Damn I need to increase my cat watching time.
Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by searchableguy on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:00AM (#24291498)
Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by trophycase on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:16AM (#24290349)
Yes it will be a sad day when there is nowhere on the globe you can go to be truly dark.
Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by Causality1 on Thursday August 27, 2020 @01:48AM (#24290515)
Starlink has no impact on this nor do any other internet provider. The first spy satellites launched in 1959. Don't carry electronics with you and you can be as dark as any spot on earth has been in the last five decades.
Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by wongarsu on Thursday August 27, 2020 @05:27AM (#24291677)
While you probably could carry a starlink antenna on a backpack, nobody forces you to (And it would be very inconvenient). They are much to big to be incorporated into smartphones or notebooks.
Re:Belarus turned off the internet – citizens hot-wired it by ajsnigrutin on Thursday August 27, 2020 @09:01AM (#24293224)
Boss: Vacation? Where are you going?

You: Camping, in the mountains, sorry boss, no signal there, I won't be accessible.

Boss: No problem.... here's a portable starlink antenna,... just in case... you know... if there is a bug in your code... or if we have a skype call with the clients... or if we need a bug fixed... haha.. you know, fixing bugs in the forest hehe.. well yeah... just have it connected during normal business hours, just in case... and check your emails while you're connected.. and slack... and CI logs... but otherwise, have a nice vacation, I hope you get some rest!