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Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by robin_reala on Sunday August 23, 2020 @12:18PM (#24252928)
Avoiding visiting the US is a good start. If you live there already, I guess avoiding leaving?
Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by the8472 on Sunday August 23, 2020 @12:22PM (#24252973)
And don't come within 100 miles of the border.
Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by 0xcde4c3db on Sunday August 23, 2020 @12:39PM (#24253121)
The rule is apparently phrased as being within 100 miles of any "external boundary", which doesn't just mean borders with other countries, but also the entire coastline, including the coasts of the Great Lakes. Most Americans live in this area.
Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by jcranmer on Sunday August 23, 2020 @01:55PM (#24253798)
Note that the "border" here is not the coastline, but the limits of territorial waters (12 miles). This also means that proximity to, say, the upper Chesapeake Bay or the southern tip of Lake Michigan aren't relevant, as those coastlines are of internal waters and not the larger ocean.
Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by dragonwriter on Sunday August 23, 2020 @02:48PM (#24254259)
> Note that the "border" here is not the coastline, but the limits of territorial waters (12 miles)

No, the Border Patrol interpretation of the “reasonable distance from the external boundary rule” is that it extends to at least 100 miles from any land border or any part of the US coastline (whether or not it is or is in proximity to an international border.)

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone/

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by jcranmer on Sunday August 23, 2020 @03:12PM (#24254473)
That's what the ACLU says the Border Patrol's interpretation is. When I actually read the regulations and the statutes themselves, as far as I could infer, the external boundary was meant to refer to the international water boundary.

I'm afraid I don't recall the exact citation off the top of my head, but I'd like to see more evidence for the ACLU's claims than, well, just the ACLU saying so. Especially when the ACLU itself points out that the law and regulations doesn't actually give the Border Patrol some of the powers it has.

(I should note there's a distinction between the actual legal authority and the actual policies applied in practice--I'm arguing that the legal authority is 100 miles from the international waters boundary; that the Border Patrol is exceeding that is probable, but the ACLU is, IMO, conflating the legal and actual effects to lobby specifically against the law rather than lobbying against the Border Patrol acting illegally).

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by fauigerzigerk on Sunday August 23, 2020 @01:10PM (#24253372)
I think the rule applies to incoming travellers only, not everyone who happens to be near the border.

The Fourteenth Amendment doesn't just lose force for everyone living in one of the coastal cities.

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by dragonwriter on Sunday August 23, 2020 @02:58PM (#24254347)
> I think the rule applies to incoming travellers only, not everyone who happens to be near the border.

No, it applies to where the Border Patrol asserts authority to conduct warrantless stops and searches of any person/vehicle/etc. for potential immigration or violations.

(There's also a similar 25-mile zone where they assert authority to do so on private property other than physically entering houses.)

They also claim similar authority to the 100-mile limit in cities with international airports, if they happen to be outside of the 100 mile zone.

> The Fourteenth Amendment doesn't just lose force for everyone living in one of the coastal cities.

The Fourteenth Amendment limits the power of state governments, it's the Fourth Amendment that is at issue here. But the legal theory is that warrantless searches in these circumstances, are reasonable and thus compliant with the Fourth Amendment.

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by fauigerzigerk on Sunday August 23, 2020 @04:13PM (#24254929)
>But the legal theory is that warrantless searches in these circumstances, are reasonable and thus compliant with the Fourth Amendment.

But does that also apply to U.S citizens who haven't crossed a border and cannot possibly have committed an immigration offence?

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by dragonwriter on Sunday August 23, 2020 @04:18PM (#24254967)
> But does that also apply to U.S citizens who haven't crossed a border and cannot possibly have committed an immigration offence?

The purpose of the stop and search is to determine immigration status, so, yes, it applies to everyone.

It's like asking if the power to arrest applies to people who are factually innocent.

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by fauigerzigerk on Sunday August 23, 2020 @04:35PM (#24255074)
Searching someone's phone or laptop isn't just done to determine their immigration status. So if a person shows their U.S passport, would BP still be allowed to search their electronics?
Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by sneak on Sunday August 23, 2020 @04:57PM (#24255237)
ICE has imprisoned US citizens, sometimes even while in possession of their passports or other citizenship documents, for months or years in the US.

They have done this almost 1500 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_E...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-citizen-detained-by-ice-fran...

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by fauigerzigerk on Sunday August 23, 2020 @05:07PM (#24255309)
That is of course terrible and should never happen, but I think it's also erroneous or illegal, not something the law permits.

I'm not defending BP or ICE practice. I was just wondering if the law actually permits the authorities to search electronic equipment of U.S citizens for no other reason than being within 100 miles of the border. That I would find truly astonishing.

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by sneak on Sunday August 23, 2020 @05:18PM (#24255369)
That’s the law as I understand it, yes. CBP set up search checkpoints on highways (even those parallel to the border) to stop and search all vehicle traffic sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2ilcgHr28ojhzf3RF7V5Uw

I offered that information about citizen arrests to illustrate that whether or not something is legal or permitted by law does not have much practical effect on the ability to constrain ICE/CBP. They have repeatedly ignored injunctions from federal judges.

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by dragonwriter on Sunday August 23, 2020 @06:39PM (#24255895)
> Searching someone's phone or laptop isn't just done to determine their immigration status. So if a person shows their U.S passport, would BP still be allowed to search their electronics?

Sorry, “immigration status” was not quite what I should have said, it's to determine border violations, both immigration and contraband related. As warrantless electronics searches are for “digital cobtraband”, they would seem likely to have the same status in the border zone (to the extent it is valid) as at the border, where manual checks with no specific basis and forensic checks with “reasonable suspicion” have been upheld, IIRC.

Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by aaomidi on Sunday August 23, 2020 @12:24PM (#24252991)
Which is near impossible if you live in any city with an international airport.
Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by leesalminen on Sunday August 23, 2020 @01:08PM (#24253353)
DFW and DEN come to mind.
Re:US Border Patrol says they can create central repository ... by peterwwillis on Sunday August 23, 2020 @12:26PM (#24253005)
2 out of 3 people in the U.S. live within 100 miles of a border zone. About 200 million people. https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone