The subsequent online behavior of people who so self-identified is what has given it a bad reputation. But no matter how clearly they demonstrate the reasons why they remain celibate, the incels seem to remain proud of their label.
Normal people, of course, see "incel" as a slur.
Is it though? You sometimes see people in the "woke" crowd call someone an incel without them self-identifying as one.
The etymology here is muddled... as etymology almost always is. It's also pretty interesting.
The Wikipedia article has a really (surprisingly) good rundown on the history of the term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel
So, yes, it was originally a term of self-identification dating all the way back to the 1990s.
Usage as an insult began after self-identified incels began making headlines by murdering people. After that, "incel" became shorthand for men who were bitter, alienated, misogynistic, and potentially violent.
A very similar thing happened in the 1990s, after a string of workplace killings by postal workers in the U.S. -- the phrase "going postal" entered the vernacular for a time.
When "incel" is used as an insult like this, I don't believe it is ever meant as a literal reference to the subject's sexual activity or lack thereof; only as a reference to their bitter attitude.
I had to repost it because https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24250085 does not appear when viewing it outside of my account.
"Incel" was a term of self-identification chosen by a subculture of people and refers to a specific set of beliefs they subscribe to.
It is not even remotely equivalent to the slurs you mentioned in your original comment. One of those slurs is based on the color of one's skin. Another one is based on one's sexual orientation.
(I can see your original post because I have "showdead" turned on in my HN prefs)
And [censored] was originally a unit of measurement, while a variant of [censored] is commonly used between members of the african-american community to self-identify/refer to each other.
Regardless, we are talking about the use of incel to refer to someone who does not identify as part of said community.
> One of those slurs is based on the color of one's skin. Another one is based on one's sexual orientation.
And the other is based on whether they are virgins or not.
A common argument is "but this is given based on behavior". It's a bad argument, because the same is true for most usages of any slur.
- One is a slur based on one's sexual preferences
- One is a slur based on a self-applied label some have chosen for themselves and represents (and I am phrasing this as neutrally as possible) a very specific set of beliefs
Which one of these is not like the others?
You've badly missed the point.
Intrinsic properties like a person's skin color are not even remotely comparable to an misogynistic ideology they have chosen. To do so is to embarrass yourself and convince nobody.
I've talked to far-right people who would dispute that. They'd say there's a difference between a black man and a n., and you can be a n. if you're white, because it's the behavior that defines it.
> - One is a slur based on one's sexual preferences
That one is even more questionable, I believe. Effeminate men are called f., especially homosexuals. Nobody calls a bear that. Sissy would be a similar term, and it's used in similar ways as a pejorative towards heterosexual men when they act "unmanly" in the same way.
> One is a slur based on a self-applied label
As was mentioned: it is not always self-applied, especially not when used as a slur, where the usage has reached inflationary levels on e.g. imgur.
You are correct that they do this. I've heard it for decades.
The primary problem with this is that people don't get to make up their own definitions for words, and force those definitions on the rest of society.
A secondary reason is that it's a BS cop-out. They know what they mean when they use the word. We know what they mean when they use the word. Lying about it when they get called on exposes them as the hateful cowards that they are.
Do you think that certain communities should not have their own dialect? Or do you think that if a member of such a community happens to use said dialect outside of the community and later clarified the specific definitions of the words that they used, they should not be given the benefit of the doubt?
> that it's a BS cop-out. They know what they mean when they use the word. We know what they mean when they use the word. Lying about it when they get called on exposes them as the hateful cowards that they are.
I am not black and I have been called a [censored] in the past, quite a few times in fact. It used to be quite common in multiplayer games and certain online communities around a decade ago, it still is but less so. If you know what they meant when they used that word then please do tell me, because I seriously doubt that they believed that I was an african american.
That's not to say that it hasn't been used as an insult -- it has -- but as far as I know, it's the preferred term. More background:
https://incels.wiki/w/Etymology
I'll mention that the current obsession with which words are used is not actually culturally sensitive. Words vary in meaning based on culture, and being exclusive on what words one can and cannot say isn't helpful. What's important is the meaning behind the word. The same word can be a nasty slur when used by one person, a term of endearment by another, a word of praise by a third, and academically neutral by a fourth. Policing words is the opposite of cultural competency.
There are some forums where you can find (I assume some are playing along but clearly some believe) people with, I'll just summarise as , worrying views about women.
The term doesn't really refer to unattractive people as much as people who clearly have a chip on their shoulder and believe they are entitled to a woman (or man, but nearly always women).
It is a slur but some of "them" do use it to refer to themselves.
I am no longer sure what the word “slur” means.
My best guesses are “a pejorative which morally should not be used”, “a pejorative which social consensus has condemned the use of”, “a pejorative against a class which social consensus has decided should be a protected class”, but I’m not sure.
Is “truescum” a slur? Idk.