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Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by recursive on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @02:49PM (#24214482)
I don't understand this. Under what circumstances are you proposing that we'd be able to open back up? What's different now (or could have been) than it was when you claim we should be been locking down the first time? Certainly no amount of locking down would completely eradicate the virus, so what's the exit strategy?
Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by alistairSH on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @03:05PM (#24214725)
I don't disagree with phased lockdown -> re-opening plans similar to what we did here in VA. The lockdown started in late March, round one of opening was rural areas and small gatherings, then extending to suburban areas, etc. And if numbers start to go back up, we might shut down again.

The problem I do have is a substantial number of people appear to be ignoring any/all orders to stay home, distance, etc. Everything from the speakeasy gyms mentioned in the article to churches holding indoor services to in-person classes at local schools. All three of which, by most accounts, are likely to result in new COVID clusters.

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by monocasa on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @05:07PM (#24216502)
Look at Wuhan; they're having pool parties with thousands of people.

There is an exit strategy, and we'd be part of it if we could have just followed the directions of doctors and epidemiologists.

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by alibarber on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @05:41PM (#24216980)
Whilst I am certain pool parties are indeed happening, something about the fact that they happened and ended up in international news strikes me of being a little, maybe, propaganda-ish.
Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by monocasa on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @05:44PM (#24217017)
Why wouldn't the fact that the epicenter of the pandemic hasn't had cases in months, and is now allowing very large gatherings not naturally be news?
Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by recursive on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @05:18PM (#24216662)
I can't see Wuhan from here.

What directions did they follow that allows Wuhan to have pool parties? I don't understand how having pool parties can be ok. Does the virus not exist there? How can that be possible?

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by monocasa on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @05:38PM (#24216929)
> I can't see Wuhan from here.

Well luckily we have this thing called the internet that lets you see images, video, and text from far away places.

> What directions did they follow that allows Wuhan to have pool parties? I don't understand how having pool parties can be ok. Does the virus not exist there? How can that be possible?

Full lockdown, including stipends to help people out economically, heavy maks usage, massive amounts of tests (when they saw six new cases after not having any, they did 6.5M tests in a week in wuhan), and scanning temperatures of pretty much anyone anytime they go into public area.

Which leads to this https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/asia/wuhan-water-park-party-i...

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday August 20, 2020 @03:32AM (#24220796)
The US had a concert with thousands of people just last week. I'm sure we can agree it shouldn't have, that it was a very dumb decision for Smash Mouth to do it - but I don't see much reason to believe that this Wuhan pool party was a smart decision.
Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by monocasa on Thursday August 20, 2020 @08:51AM (#24222677)
Wuhan hasn't had a case in months is the difference.
Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by aspaceman on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @03:02PM (#24214671)
If people listened.

There's a genuine culture difference in America, call it American Exceptionalism if you want, that's caused all sorts of normal preventative measures to be ignored or actively rejected. Many businesses actively rejected the idea of requiring masks, today some businesses still refuse service if you're wearing a mask. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

Moreso in this thread you have hundreds of comments hemming and hawing, nitting and picking at every detail of proposed lockdowns and mask requirements. People hate this stuff and they call it an imposition on their freedom.

In other countries people just put on masks and stayed home. They didn't make nearly as much of a fuss about it all.

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by recursive on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @03:25PM (#24215016)
> They didn't make nearly as much of a fuss about it all.

Yes. But my point is, I don't see how that could make them any closer to re-opening. The virus still exists. All the factors in play when the lockdowns started are still in play.

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by alistairSH on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @04:07PM (#24215614)
The problem is the relaxed attitudes to COVID is causing clusters to appear and expand, delaying efforts to re-open.

Remember, lockdown isn't about 100% prevention, it's about keeping infections at a level that's acceptable (generally defined as keeping enough ICU beds and ventilators available for COVID+normal use).

If people all wear masks, keep distance when possible, and generally "follow the rules", we should be able to return to a more normal lifestyle.

But, as politicians force schools to open, pastors insist on in-person services, and the "mah rights!" crowd refuses to play by the rules at all, we get more COVID clusters than we might otherwise.

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by recursive on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @04:25PM (#24215900)
Prior to lockdown, levels were already generally "acceptable". If there was a reason to lock down in the first place, how can there not be now?
Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by alistairSH on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @04:52PM (#24216268)
NYC was far from acceptable. The point was to prevent the rest of the nation getting to a similar point.

That levels in other urban areas generally stayed below thresholds is proof that the lockdowns worked.

Until the pandemic passes (either via mutation, vaccine, or herd immunity), we should be in a state of maintenance where we move in/out of various levels of lockdown/open to keep it that way.

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by ticviking on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @05:09PM (#24216531)
> today some businesses still refuse service if you're wearing a mask

I couldn't find more than one case of this so I'm curious if you have any evidence it's widespread.

Re:Secret gyms and the economics of prohibition by monocasa on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @05:49PM (#24217094)
I've seen it in several places in rural Colorado.