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Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by lefrenchy on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:53AM (#24200194)
I’m sorry, what? Wage growth has stagnated for most Americans in the lat few decades. The idea that billionaires are a necessity for the existence of jobs is absurd.

Ask yourself this: if they are paying their employees so well, where are they getting all that money?

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by gadders on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:10PM (#24200455)
One possible cause for wage growth stagnation is the increase in the supply of labour from EG immigration and H1B visas and the like.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by airstrike on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:36PM (#24200813)
Yeah, no.

The cause for wage growth stagnation isn't immigration. Immigration is a net positive for society. Emigration is the real harm. That much is settled in Economics.

The cause for wage growth is, perhaps, the offshoring of labor to cheaper economies. Better for Nike to pay minimum wage in China than in the US.

Meanwhile, capital gains remain domestic as business owners don't relocate

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by gadders on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:50PM (#24201002)
You supply a lot of assertions in your reply. I'm not sure why you think having more people to fill a role wouldn't drive the price down.

Supply and demand applies to jobs and workers as much as any other part of economics.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by airstrike on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:13PM (#24201318)
> I'm not sure why you think having more people to fill a role wouldn't drive the price down.

Immigration indeed lowers wages for competing workers, but it also increases wages for complementary workers and generates surplus to owners of capital – which in the long-term constitute a net gain to all of society, but at a minimum does constitute a net loss to workers at large.

Research suggests negative wage effects are concentrated among low-skilled workers.

Immigration can indeed have disruptive effects, but it can be managed, and its net gains for the whole of society are fairly well established.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by isoskeles on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:46PM (#24201733)
I'm curious what you mean by complementary workers.

In the example of immigrants doing hard manual labor, especially agricultural work, who are the complementary workers? I'd infer it's workers like the people who transport crops around or operate the machinery to plant / grow the crops, etc.

Is that close to the meaning you intended?

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by airstrike on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:06PM (#24202038)
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by lefrenchy on Wednesday August 19, 2020 @02:59PM (#24214637)
Protections for labor have been stripped await as Capitalism has become more and more hegemonic over the last 50 years. Profit seeking corporations have always looked for ways to cut their wages. Combine this with the fact that we have become an increasingly globalized world, where labor standards are much lower in third world countries, and you have many factors that play into wage stagnation.

It is ultimately a race to the bottom when you have a globalized economy, but do not have standardized worker protections across said economy.

Immigration has plenty of benefits on society, and we should not use wage stagnation relative to productivity growth (which can be stopped) justify isolationism and protectionism. Whether we like it or not, we live in an increasingly globalized economy and we should fight to have broader labor protections and give more power to workers to be able to protect themselves and fight for fairer wages. The alternative is, as I previously stated, a race to the bottom.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by gowld on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:12PM (#24201299)
only under the shadow of weakened unions.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by projektfu on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:28AM (#24199856)
How is it more precise to say something the commenter didn't say and, probably, wouldn't say?
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by eanzenberg on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:43AM (#24200043)
Do billionaires exist in a vacuum, creating their wealth away from society? What does it mean to be a billionaire? Physically, it means they’ve affected a large amount of the population. For the better, or worse? Take away the companies the billionaires created and imagine life.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by istjohn on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:07PM (#24200408)
You seem to assume that billionaires would throw a hissy fit and go off grid to Galt's Gulch if they faced a wealth tax. But maybe they are motivated by more than the concrete purchasing power of their wealth.

If they are motivated by the desire to build, they would still build. If they are motivated by the desire to beat their peers in a game of "Who Has The Most Money," they would still compete. The winning number would just have fewer digits. If they are motivated by the power money buys, well, maybe the rest of us are better off not playing that game.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by vinay_ys on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:12PM (#24202113)
To curtail and equalize the political power of the rich with the rest of world, their wealth have to be reduced to such an extent that they also don't have the leisure to engage in deep politics. Let's say, if 75% of the voting population has < $x and if even 1% has 3x of that, then they basically have 2x leisure buffer over everyone else to be more politically engaged and influence the small number representative politicians, to manipulate the narrative for the rest of the 75% etc.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by eanzenberg on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:51PM (#24201017)
They would leave, though. There’s evidence of capital flight in high tax regions of Europe.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by weaksauce on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:00PM (#24201954)
there's evidence of capital flight and offshore tax havens now. they need to tax the movement of money.
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Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by kuzimoto on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:01PM (#24200314)
Capitalism has done more to lift people out of poverty than any other system in human history, so it's got that going for it.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by vidarh on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @02:20PM (#24202214)
Marx wrote something almost to that effect in the Communist Manifesto. About half the first chapter is intense praise for the advances brought by capitalism.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by pinkfoot on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:23PM (#24201453)
Actually that title belongs to the CCP.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by kuzimoto on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:34PM (#24201598)
"China's Economic Success Proves the Power of Capitalism"[0] My point still stands.

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/rainerzitelmann/2019/07/08/chin...

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by kwhitefoot on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:55PM (#24201072)
Billionaires are not necessary for capitalism.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by eanzenberg on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:16PM (#24201364)
I wouldn’t be surprised if billionaires are a one of the many reasons people want to immigrate to America.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by kuzimoto on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:07PM (#24201229)
I never said they were. I believe they are merely a symptom of it.
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Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by zozbot234 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:46AM (#24200075)
We may not literally need billionaires for jobs to exist, but we need savings and investment for highly productive jobs. A wealth tax is borne over time by assets that are saved and invested; it obviously isn't by the portion that's consumed. If you tax Bezos' and other billionaires' wealth, Amazon and other firms will face sharply higher costs of capital, which can indeed be seen as a partial "dissolution".
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by dublin on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:41PM (#24200870)
You don't fix this by penalizing people that are successful. You fix this by preventing companies from buying all their competitors, or unfairly running them out of business. If we actually enforced existing anti-trust laws, with an eye toward NEVER allowing any company grow to be too big to fail via acquisition, we wouldn't be in this mess. (Note that companies that actually grow organically (Amazon/AWS is a good example) aren't hindered by this. Their success attracts other competitors (Azure, GCP, even IBM and Oracle), and competition is what should be encouraged for the good of society.)
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by komali2 on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @04:49PM (#24204181)
> You don't fix this by penalizing people that are successful.

Let's start at people who's net worth are > 1 billion then. That's 607 people in the USA. IMO worth it, considering their outsized political power.

Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by eanzenberg on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @11:41AM (#24200016)
Interesting, so billionaires directly affect the majority of jobs, and the rest of the jobs may be indirectly affected by billionaires and their job prowess as well. GDP growth is roughly 2% a year. Everyone here ok with GDP contraction for our future? How do we fund all the social experiments that many people want?
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by spencerflem on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:29PM (#24200710)
GDP growth doesn't matter to normal people if all of the growth goes to billionaires. Wages have been static for decades.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by eanzenberg on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @12:53PM (#24201037)
Over the past 3 years much of that growth has gone to “normal” people.
Re:Modeling a Wealth Tax by pwinnski on Tuesday August 18, 2020 @01:51PM (#24201819)
That doesn't seem line up with anything I've read about. Can you elaborate?