'revenue' from Firefox was never enough. It's only really just struck me that of course Google funding them made a dependency and 1) made the company grow beyond its needs, and 2) made it not seek self-sufficiency.

If Google are stopping the money then FF is like a person with no money taken in by Google and hooked on drugs; once they're kicked out they can't fund the habit and reliance on Google has meant they've not had to find ways to fund themselves.

I realised Google held the cards, but hadn't twigged on how the excessive nature of the funding made Firefox/Mozilla weaker.

Unless FF were aware of how that might go and put half of their Google money into investments?

>'revenue' from Firefox was never enough

I mean I'm looking at the leadership page and all I can ask myself is do you need to pay that many executives just to build a web browser?

I'd be fascinated to know how much it costs Apple to develop Safari, a browser multiple times more successful than Firefox judging by Wikipedia. Just a hunch but I'd bet money it's a fraction of the cost of running this bloated pseudo-charity.

Best thing for the internet is for current Mozilla to fade out fast and something more sustainable be built from the technology remains.

If Mozilla sold devices bundled with Firefox as the default browser, Firefox would also be "multiple times more successful".

They did do that; see the Alcatel Pixi 3. Firefox OS is regarded as one of Mozilla's failures.

yes. if there was someone like Stallman (for all its flaws he seemed to not have waste money on random capitalistic ventures) coming up and forking it, when it finally goes under, I'm happy to pitch in my 5$/month. If it's a charity for god knows what and includes a sizeable PR department: well....

It's not true that "'revenue' from Firefox was never enough", and it's bordering on misinformation to speculate that "Google are stopping the money".

edit: Really, could you please not do that? Asking "Is the search deal not expiring?" is even worse than the earlier comment...

Ok, cool I've found it hard to find financial details - could you perhaps list for an example period the main revenue not from Google and it's origins? Then maybe the top 3 lines of the expense report?

I mean unless we're going back to phoenix days it seems like Google's money both saved and potentially secured Firefox's demise.

Re the speculation that the Google money is stopping (AIUI its something of the order 90% of income) Mozilla seem to be hunting for all and any revenue streams and urgently cutting costs. They look like they're preparing for it to stop, and I get the impression they want to be self-sufficient. It strikes me (and recall I have little knowledge of their financials - perhaps they've put a lot of income aside) they need to be self-sufficient in order to not be scared to follow a privacy route that could readily [probably has already IMO] annoy Google. Google aren't giving them $X00 Million for fun, I feel. The less useable data, and sellable users, Mozilla directs their way the less useful Mozilla is to Google.

(Perhaps there's also a benefit in keeping FF to prevent the appearance of Chrome being a monopoly.)

Is the search deal not expiring?

e: to your edit.

I'm not sure what is wrong with the question. My understanding is that the search deal is expiring and is the source of most of the FF related revenue.

If that is not the case I'd like to know. It seems like a reasonable question.

The search deal is indeed expiring in a few months, but also neither party has said whether it'll be renewed or not, so it's not yet time to assume it won't be.

Ok, that's fair.

pbhjpbhj's comment did predicate the speculation with an "If". And Mozilla has already had two rounds of layoffs this year ostensibly because of declining revenue. I think speculation on what will happen if the search deal is not renewed is reasonable.

I do appreciate pointing out that we do not know this will expire.

Mozilla should have a pretty good idea, if they don't that's a serious problem. The ones made redundant now might be the lucky ones if Google haven't yet indicated their general intentions.

Used to be the case. But then, at some point, Mozilla decided grew from ~300 people to ~1200 people to both attempt to remain feature-competitive with Firefox and try new things.