TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by hn_throwaway_99 on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:19AM (#24117964)

> Wouldn't it still be fine if they are storing data there but not giving it to china gov?

That situation does not exist. Chinese law basically means that any data held in China can be accessed by the government at any time.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by panpanna on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @05:26AM (#24118632)

Yeah, buy according to US law American companies must comply with government requests even if the data is stored abroad.

So basically, why should anyone trust a US company if US thinks tiktok giving data to their government is a problem?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by gruez on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @11:45AM (#24121598)

They don't, hence why EU has data residency requirements, and American companies set up firewalled entities to comply (eg. Azure Germany).

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by macintux on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @10:46AM (#24120797)

American companies have a legal system to protect them against unlawful requests. That rule of law is under attack, but exists, which does not seem to be the case for China.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by throw44532 on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @11:11AM (#24121116)

Don’t National Security Letters and a Secret Courts bypass that?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by sschueller on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:38AM (#24118069)

Like in the US..., you just need a warrant which is just paperwork.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by chrisco255 on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:52AM (#24118157)

Unfortunately the FISA courts have been abused like crazy. But warrants aren't just paperwork. If you're charged with a crime but the prosecution has violated your rights, you can walk free in the U.S. You have multiple layers of appeals courts to go through if you get railroaded. The CCP is truly authoritarian and rules and laws are what they say they are. Not even remotely equivalent.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by DiogenesKynikos on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @05:11AM (#24118570)

Snowden revealed a FISA warrant that granted access to data on all Verizon calls. At the point that courts are granting such broad (and blatantly unconstitutional) warrants, warrants don't matter any more.

1. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-reco...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by virtue3 on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @04:50AM (#24118460)

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/fisa-investigation

We're trying to roll that back apparently. I don't have a lot of hope but we'll see. These politicians are all basically under fire this november so they better damnwell hustle.

Also, FWIW, companies can release FISA statements saying they've been accessed. How much of that is actually true depends on your level of paranoia.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by baddox on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:38AM (#24118073)

Is that unique to Chinese law?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by DetroitThrow on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @03:42AM (#24118103)

The unique part of Chinese law is the lack of judicial supremacy or "rule of law". The party has supremacy over legal system interpretation as part of the '3 Supremes' order of precedence, with workers also coming ahead of the law.

In the US system, there are still miscarriages of Justice, but there is judicial supremacy and separation of powers.

The powers aren't as separated as say the French justice system, but most would say the US judicial system is mostly independent of the other branches of government.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by sbmthakur on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @05:11AM (#24118575)

> The party has supremacy over legal system interpretation as part of the '3 Supremes' order of precedence, with workers also coming ahead of the law.

Very few people are aware about this. The party is supreme and institutions like PLA are answerable to the party, not to the people.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by burfog on Wednesday August 12, 2020 @12:31AM (#24128615)

I always find the terminology strange.

If there is only one party permitted, and that one party is supreme, then how is that a party? It looks like government to me. Maybe the translation to English is just wrong. The "party" isn't a party by any reasonable definition.

The real parties would be factions within the so-called party. I don't know if they have names more descriptive than "Xi supporters" and "Xi opponents".

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by La1n on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @08:59AM (#24119806)

US institutions also answer to the US government...

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by macintux on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @10:48AM (#24120822)

Judges don’t answer to the government. They can be impeached, but that effectively never happens.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by baddox on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @01:01PM (#24122639)

So they answer to no one?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by DetroitThrow on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @11:56PM (#24128466)

We trust them to answer to SCOTUS, who we in turn trust to interpret the constitution that a majority of us have agreed to keep. Basically a group of people whose entire job is to interpret the actions in terms of law, constitution, and human rights - a marrying of theories on social contract, natural rights, and separation of powers that we've seen emulated (and improved upon) across the free world :)

Overall, I particularly enjoy this system over one that is accountable to a single entity.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by macintux on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @02:38PM (#24124088)

They can be overruled by higher courts, and in some localities they’re forced to run for election.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban by sbmthakur on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @11:34AM (#24121444)

Yes, and those leading the government are elected by the people every few years.

[ Parent | on HN ]