EPA to Rescind Methane Regulations for Oil and Gas

Re:EPA to Rescind Methane Regulations for Oil and Gas by rayiner on Monday August 10, 2020 @03:26PM (#24113048)

This is an utterly specious claim that overlooks the fact that the oil and gas industry is highly competitive and sells commodities. As a result, Exxon, for example, has a net profit margin well under 10%: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/XOM/exxon/profit-m.... (Compare Google at 20%+ https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GOOG/alphabet/prof...) Because of commodification and competition, almost all cost reductions flow to consumers. If fracking causes the cost of natural gas to drop in half, the producers will capture some profits in the downswing, but most of the benefit will go to consumers who enjoy a large drop in prices. At the same time, oil and gas production creates well-paying jobs for skilled, non-college workers. All that makes policies that make oil and gas products cheaper popular with voters not just popular with "business elites." Indeed, energy prices are highly correlated with both employment rates and Presidential approval ratings: https://seekingalpha.com/article/252704-the-price-of-gas-and...

The "maximizing profits" trope simply doesn't explain why oil and gas has such an outsize influence. If profits are what mattered, the tech sector would have tremendous influence, but it doesn't. It doesn't, because unlike oil and gas it doesn't employ tons of non-college workers in swing states, and the cost of their products doesn't hit everyone in the wallet once a week. Profits are secondary or tertiary at best.

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Re:EPA to Rescind Methane Regulations for Oil and Gas by makomk on Monday August 10, 2020 @04:53PM (#24113857)

Not only that, as the article point out big companies like Exxon actually supported these methane restrictions - which just so happen to be much harder for their smaller competitors to comply with than the megacorps, meaning that the regulations will reduce competition. Now, of course Exxon insist that they're just doing this because they want to be green, but they not exactly going to come out and say that they like it because they expect it'll increase their profits are they?

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Re:EPA to Rescind Methane Regulations for Oil and Gas by vanusa on Monday August 10, 2020 @04:01PM (#24113394)

The "maximizing profits" trope simply doesn't explain why o1l and gas has such an outsize influence.

I agree that these kinds of supports (to certain industry sectors) don't always do all that much to maximize their profits (short, let alone long).

The real reason behind them is their symbolic effect. It's the idea of a limitless (and infinitely exploitable) "frontier" -- and the inherent, sacred right of private capital to manage that exploitation, unfettered by regulation -- that they seek to defend with these actions. (That, and the repudiation of basic science on general principles of course).

That some of their donors (who as I'm sure you know will individually benefit many magnitudes of order more than individual consumers will from the temporary increase in economic potential) is a nice plus (icing on the cake) as it were -- but it's not the main driver.

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Re:EPA to Rescind Methane Regulations for Oil and Gas by mrlala on Monday August 10, 2020 @03:37PM (#24113166)

Eh, you basically just verified the point in my opinion..

You try to skirt around the issue saying the profits are maybe being passed down the consumer more than one thinks, ok valid. But the point still remains that everything that is being done is to maximize short term profits / cut short term consumer costs.

>policies that make oil and gas products cheaper popular with voters not just popular with "business elites."

Well.. so what? Of course 95% of people would generally say "MAKE THINGS CHEAPER!" That doesn't mean it should be done.

Besides, you are also making it sound like more people would rather have cheaper gas than a long-sustainable environment. Not so sure you are right on that one.

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Re:EPA to Rescind Methane Regulations for Oil and Gas by rayiner on Monday August 10, 2020 @03:40PM (#24113193)

You linked profits to "short-term gains for its core constituency (i.e. business elites." The notion that voters might be thinking in a short-term way, preferring lower energy costs and lower unemployment in the short term to more sustainable energy policies in the long term, I would agree with that, but I think that's a different argument than what can be fairly derived from your post.

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