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Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by MattGaiser on Monday August 10, 2020 @12:26AM (#24105560)
I can’t imagine software engineers staying in a company long enough to acquire it.

For this to work, software engineer compensation would need to change radically.

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by watt on Monday August 10, 2020 @06:18AM (#24107544)
Maybe that's the point of this oath? Software engineers will refuse to work on these areas, unless demands of the oath can be met.
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by wonderwonder on Monday August 10, 2020 @09:54AM (#24109232)
A doctor refusing to do a procedure because he worries for his patient is seen as a good guy doing what is right, he is in his opinion saving a life. In addition he is trying to avoid the massive cost of a medical malpractice suit.

A software developer refusing a job because it does not meet his ethical parameters is just an unemployed software engineer.

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by bumby on Monday August 10, 2020 @03:23PM (#24113008)
I think one of the issues is the domain of is vast. One developer may be working on a basic CRUD app while the next is working safety critical code on a vessel going to Mars.

There are definitely areas where the prudent thing for a developer to do is raise a dissenting opinion, if not halting work. What seems lacking is clear industry consensus standards to back up that decision.

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by Chris2048 on Monday August 10, 2020 @06:55AM (#24107768)
If a doctor says no, it's because of legal liability and risk to licence.

For the same reason, it's harder to hire some rando budget doctor because the field is gate-keeped by the requirement of a licence, and liability.

You can't magically make Engineering the same without the same conditions. Add barriers top entry that see my pay rise, or have cheap programmers with no liability.

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by bumby on Monday August 10, 2020 @03:26PM (#24113053)
Engineering already has these barriers, they just aren’t required or enforced.

I’ve never been on a project that requires a software product stamped by a licensed engineer. NCEES dropped the software license because there was so little demand, compared to, say, civil engineers who consider a license a rite of passage to career growth.

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by Chris2048 on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @07:15AM (#24119146)
You need a licence to practice medicine, if there is something called a "license" for engineering but isn't required for practise, then it's not the same. If we have the same barriers, but not enforced, then we don't have the same barriers.
Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by bumby on Tuesday August 11, 2020 @09:37AM (#24120118)
That’s not quite right. You actually do need a state license in the US to practice engineering for the public except for a few basic instances:

1) you work for the federal government

2) you work under a licensed engineer

3) you work under an industrial exemption

There’s differences depending on state. There has been a more concerted effort to remove #3 recently due to both political reasons and the technical issues in this thread. Most people performing engineering work under an industrial exemption don’t actually realize it. Again, this is different state to state. For example, in some states you can’t start a business with “engineering” in the name unless you have a certain percentage of owners/principals with an engineering license.[1]

What actually happens is conflating terms in common parlance. “Engineer” and “engineer” are not necessarily the same. For example, a computer engineer may work under an industrial exemption (due to working in a manufacturing service) while a software engineer does not. Legally, an “Engineer” claims an explicit responsibility to public safety.[2] Apropos to the headline article, there is a distinction with this difference.

[1] https://fxbinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/state-by-state...

[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/progr...

Re:Microsoft President: We Need a Hippocratic Oath for Softw... by bumby on Monday August 10, 2020 @04:03PM (#24113408)
From my experience, software engineers don't rotate nearly as often in traditional cyclical and defense businesses (auto, aerospace) as they do in the FAANG technology sector. There are a lot of grey beards who weren't so grey when they started.