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Re:Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pi... by klodolph on Monday August 10, 2020 @12:07AM (#24105445)
You could pick a pure deep violet and red with a 2:1 frequency ratio, but we would not be able to tell. It would simply look like two different colors to us, with no special relationship.

Just because a mathematical relationship exists doesn't mean that we perceive it.

Not all music is built around 2:1 octaves. People who grew up listening to music with 2:1 octaves can identify pitch classes, people who grew up in isolated tribes without exposure to that kind of music--hear C and C' simply as different notes. People with absolute pitch sometimes have the opposite problem--they can accurately recognize the pitch class of C or C', but are more likely to mistake C for C' or vice versa.

Real music often deviates from the 2:1 ratio anyway. Only certain instruments produce a near pure harmonic spectrum, most instruments have some inharmonicity, and these instruments are often played according to their spectrum, rather than the harmonic series.

Re:Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pi... by dr_dshiv on Monday August 10, 2020 @06:15PM (#24114687)
You will like this article of the relation of the octave to neural dynamics: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2346780/
Re:Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pi... by TylerE on Monday August 10, 2020 @12:14AM (#24105497)
Musical frequencies are not "pure".

They are made up of a series of overtones. By far the loudest of these overtones is the 2nd harmonic... which is double the base frequency aka one octave.

This is not some artificial construct but a fundamental part of how things vibrate.

Re:Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pi... by klodolph on Monday August 10, 2020 @01:43AM (#24105947)
> By far the loudest of these overtones is the 2nd harmonic...

Not true in general. There is no reason to expect the 2nd harmonic to be louder than the others. Some instruments produce mostly odd-numbered harmonics, such as the clarinet.

> This is not some artificial construct but a fundamental part of how things vibrate.

That's only true in a one-dimensional world. Instruments in the three-dimensional world are either mode-locked (not freely vibrating) or have some amount of inharmonicity. This is why the octaves on a piano are not tuned to 2:1 ratios, as I mentioned.

Re:Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pi... by dr_dshiv on Monday August 10, 2020 @06:08PM (#24114611)
But pianos are tuned with 2:1 ratios. That is preserved in equal temperment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies

Re:Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pi... by klodolph on Monday August 10, 2020 @07:38PM (#24115517)
No, pianos are not tuned in 2:1 ratios.

From the article you cited:

> This list of frequencies is for a theoretically ideal piano. On an actual piano the ratio between semitones is slightly larger...

For more details, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stretched_tuning

Or,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_acoustics#The_Railsback_...

Re:Valproate reopens critical-period learning of absolute pi... by kqr on Monday August 10, 2020 @12:25AM (#24105555)
There have been experiments made on people brought up on music where the octave is considered less important and these people do not perceive it as "the same."

It seems the same to us because we're building on hundreds of years of music that tells us it is. If you're comfortable with the tonic moving, the octave is no more "the same" than any other note.

Most of what we take for granted in music is learned through exposure.